Movement to defund police gains 'unprecedented' support across US

Mott the Hoople said:
You nit wit. That’s what the National Guard is for. The last thing we need are cops who think they are soldiers. It’s unprofessional and it’s a conflict of interest and let’s not hide the fact that a whole shitload of the violence during peaceful protest were started by the police using ham handed and unnecessarily violent tactics. What about that?
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“Together, these decisions provide a plausible legal basis for the limited set of military activities that the Trump administration appears to be pursuing thus far. But if he wanted to make good on his threat to use the military to enforce the law and suppress civil unrest elsewhere in the country, Trump would almost certainly have to invoke the much broader exception to posse comitatus restrictions provided by the Insurrection Act—a controversial move that has historically been reserved for extreme exigencies. Even then, there may be reasons to doubt whether Trump has the legal authority to act, as the current state of civil unrest in the United States is a poor fit for what the Insurrection Act is designed to address.”
law fare.com
 
anatta said:
The movement to defund the police is gaining significant support across America, including from elected leaders, as protests over the killing of George Floyd sweep the nation.

For years, activists have pushed US cities and states to cut law enforcement budgets amid a dramatic rise in spending on police and prisons while funding for vital social services has shrunk or disappeared altogether.

Government officials have long dismissed the idea as a leftist fantasy, but the recent unrest and massive budget shortfalls from the Covid-19 crisis appear to have inspired more mainstream recognition of the central arguments behind defunding.

“To see legislators who aren’t even necessarily on the left supporting at least a significant decrease in New York police department [NYPD] funding is really very encouraging,” Julia Salazar, a New York state senator and Democratic socialist, told the Guardian on Tuesday. “It feels a little bit surreal.”

Floyd’s death on camera in Minneapolis, advocates say, was a powerful demonstration that police reform efforts of the last half-decade have failed to stop racist policing and killings. Meanwhile, the striking visuals of enormous, militarized and at times violent police forces responding to peaceful protests have led some politicians to question whether police really need this much money and firepower.
.....
Community groups advocating for defunding have put forward differing strategies, some merely opposing police budget increases, others advocating mass reductions, and some fighting for full defunding as a step toward abolishing police forces. Some initiatives are tied to the fight to close prisons. All are pushing for a reinvestment of those dollars in services.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/04/defund-the-police-us-george-floyd-budgets
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Defunding is not the answer. What is needed is better psychological testing and training to weed out the bad applicants. Every cop must wear a body cam. Every police car must have a dash cam. That takes more not less money.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You nit wit. That’s what the National Guard is for. The last thing we need are cops who think they are soldiers. It’s unprofessional and it’s a conflict of interest and let’s not hide the fact that a whole shitload of the violence during peaceful protest were started by the police using ham handed and unnecessarily violent tactics. What about that?
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did you miss the part where despite riots and police
being outnumbered the governors were not calling in the National Guard? apparently so.

And the police are front line defense -should they be exposed to bottles, bricks, Molotov
while governors stand around and maybe/finally call out the guard?

Excessive cop violence gets called out, but I'd like to see you standing there getting pelted
and never over-react. It's EZ being an armchair quarterback/not so easy under the duress.
~~

I was in a full scale anti-war riot back in 1969. I was all of 14. College Park, MD
It was terrifying ( I was there originally to see a rock show -Grand Funk Railroad. and the riot broke out)

Bottles and bricks and rocks over my head from the rioters, and tear gas and National guard on horseback
charging into the skirmish line from the other side.

I damn near got my head stove in from a guard on horseback - he had his baton out to strike me,
but at the last second reared up and turned away. I was a terrified little bitch. Just like you'd be out there.
support the cops. they are the Thin Blue Line between civilization and chaos
 
anatta said:
The movement to defund the police is gaining significant support across America, including from elected leaders, as protests over the killing of George Floyd sweep the nation.

For years, activists have pushed US cities and states to cut law enforcement budgets amid a dramatic rise in spending on police and prisons while funding for vital social services has shrunk or disappeared altogether.

Government officials have long dismissed the idea as a leftist fantasy, but the recent unrest and massive budget shortfalls from the Covid-19 crisis appear to have inspired more mainstream recognition of the central arguments behind defunding.

“To see legislators who aren’t even necessarily on the left supporting at least a significant decrease in New York police department [NYPD] funding is really very encouraging,” Julia Salazar, a New York state senator and Democratic socialist, told the Guardian on Tuesday. “It feels a little bit surreal.”

Floyd’s death on camera in Minneapolis, advocates say, was a powerful demonstration that police reform efforts of the last half-decade have failed to stop racist policing and killings. Meanwhile, the striking visuals of enormous, militarized and at times violent police forces responding to peaceful protests have led some politicians to question whether police really need this much money and firepower.
.....
Community groups advocating for defunding have put forward differing strategies, some merely opposing police budget increases, others advocating mass reductions, and some fighting for full defunding as a step toward abolishing police forces. Some initiatives are tied to the fight to close prisons. All are pushing for a reinvestment of those dollars in services.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/04/defund-the-police-us-george-floyd-budgets
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I truly believe this is another attempt and a federal government run police force, one dems can corrupt!
 
Mott the Hoople said:
What anarchy? Y’all keep avoiding my question. Why do we need so fucking many cops?
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There are 85k cops in NYC. they have been working 12 hour shifts. they are exhausted and injured and targets of rioters. Still Cuomo/DeBlasio refuse to call out the guard. start there as to why "we need so many"
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Studies have shown for many, many years that throwing more and more money into police and prisons is counterproductive. It not only doesn’t decrease crime there’s a significant correlation between excessive spending and increased crime rates.

Where as investing in education, jobs and skills training, mental health and social services programs have a long and far better track record at reducing crime than increased spending on police does.

Since the mid 80’s at the State level funding has only increased 6% but spending on Police has risen 140%.

It’s also extremely disturbing seeing the police using this excess of money to garb themselves in military gear than commit acts of violence on peaceful protestors.

Given the police reputation here in Cbus I have no doubt what so ever that the police played no small roll in starting the violence during the protests here. I’ve seen them do it before.
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Umm No, I live in Newark, and know plenty of Columbus police officers, they are salt of the Earth, what happened was you probably messed with one, and they put you on your face rightfully so!
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Studies have shown for many, many years that throwing more and more money into police and prisons is counterproductive. It not only doesn’t decrease crime there’s a significant correlation between excessive spending and increased crime rates.
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cite. makes no sense. it may not loer crime but increased cops and prisons dont raise crime. that's counterintuitive

Where as investing in education, jobs and skills training, mental health and social services programs have a long and far better track record at reducing crime than increased spending on police does.
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depends on where. That hasn't helped Baltimore. it's resistant to anything..
legalization of drugs would help more then anything -funding for criminal gangs

It’s also extremely disturbing seeing the police using this excess of money to garb themselves in military gear than commit acts of violence on peaceful protestors.
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false conflation. dressing in military garb does not mean police violence. In fact the numbers of police violence is quantifyable everything is on camera. I'm not surprised you say nothing about cops getting run over, hit by trash cans and skate board and beaten up by mobs.
Given the police reputation here in Cbus I have no doubt what so ever that the police played no small roll in starting the violence during the protests here. I’ve seen them do it before.
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imposing public order like pushing back protestors is gonna piss them off -that's typically when the bottles come out
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Studies have shown for many, many years that throwing more and more money into police and prisons is counterproductive. It not only doesn’t decrease crime there’s a significant correlation between excessive spending and increased crime rates.

Where as investing in education, jobs and skills training, mental health and social services programs have a long and far better track record at reducing crime than increased spending on police does.

Since the mid 80’s at the State level funding has only increased 6% but spending on Police has risen 140%.

It’s also extremely disturbing seeing the police using this excess of money to garb themselves in military gear than commit acts of violence on peaceful protestors.

Given the police reputation here in Cbus I have no doubt what so ever that the police played no small roll in starting the violence during the protests here. I’ve seen them do it before.
Click to expand...

I apologize if you've already addressed this but what's the basis of support for your first two sentences? Without seeing the data I'm not going to say you're wrong but we've seen in places like Baltimore where the police pulled back after the Freddie Gray killing and riots that crime and murder increased.

I agree people don't want to live in a police state. But you also have high crime areas where people are basically prisoners in their house for the fear of what's outside. That's not acceptable either. You can't have neighborhoods where parents are afraid to let their kids play in front because of the crime and lawlessness occurring.
 
anatta said:
it's just cop hate from pandering politicians
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Kinda like the cop hate you so stubbornly clung to back in 2011 when the OPD was arresting those Food Not Bombs wackos in Lake Eola Park for their little PR stunt and refusing to obey orders to move their homeless feeding operation to a different site because local business owners were complaining about the bums harassing their customers etc.

As I recall, you and I went around and around and around and around about that for days, with you calling the cops things like "fascists", "pigs" and "storm troopers".

My how your attitudes have changed since your "Cosmic Rocker" days, haven't they? :laugh:

:palm:
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Question:

What would replace them? Are you willing to do without any legal authorities to intervene in criminal matters? Are you willing to have to defend yourself and property at all times?

After all, that's what defunding the police would result in.
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A police department that answers to the people. The police work behind a blue cloud that hides what they do. They protect the miscreants and brutal police. That has to stop. The courts and prosecutors are part of that equation. It results in the police getting guilty decisions that are orchestrated by the system. The coroners office should not be working with the cops.
Again, if a cop does an action that results in the city making a payoff, he should pay part of it. If he has skin in the game, he will be more careful.Some commit multiple infractions against the people. It should be known to the public.
Cops turn off cameras or remove badges. That should result in dismissal. Like these cops do who are beating protesters. They do that because breaking the law is the plan of action.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Question:

What would replace them? Are you willing to do without any legal authorities to intervene in criminal matters? Are you willing to have to defend yourself and property at all times?

After all, that's what defunding the police would result in.
Click to expand...

A police department that answers to the people. The police work behind a blue cloud that hides what they do. They protect the miscreants and brutal police. That has to stop. The courts and prosecutors are part of that equation. It results in the police getting guilty decisions that are orchestrated by the system. The coroner's office should not be working with the cops.
Again, if a cop does an action that results in the city making a payoff, he should pay part of it. If he has skin in the game, he will be more careful. Some commit multiple infractions against the people. It should be known to the public.
Cops turn off cameras or remove badges. That should result in dismissal. Like these cops do who are beating protesters. They do that because breaking the law is the plan of action. It is a small percentage of cops who ever use their weapon. TV cops are not reality.
 
Nordberg said:
A police department that answers to the people. The police work behind a blue cloud that hides what they do. They protect the miscreants and brutal police. That has to stop. The courts and prosecutors are part of that equation. It results in the police getting guilty decisions that are orchestrated by the system. The coroners office should not be working with the cops.
Again, if a cop does an action that results in the city making a payoff, he should pay part of it. If he has skin in the game, he will be more careful.Some commit multiple infractions against the people. It should be known to the public.
Cops turn off cameras or remove badges. That should result in dismissal. Like these cops do who are beating protesters. They do that because breaking the law is the plan of action.
Click to expand...
So, you favor rioters over the police.

The next time you are being attacked with a knife or gun, call a rioter.

You know that every segment of society has bad apples. You don’t judge the hundreds of thousands of police officers who do not engage in bad behavior.
 
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