No one is likely to help America. It is now a pariah nation

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said:
I made no such "pretense". Your perceptions are yours alone.



It does not matter who inhabits elected office. In a representative republic, the citizens choose the leaders they prefer in elections. That means they own the subsequent actions those elected leaders undertake. During the Nuremberg trials, the principle of collective guilt was solidly established.

There is no distinction between a state and its leaders. The head of state acts for the state, which by definition, includes the populace.

If any nation wants to stop their government from doing things they don't wish it to do, the remedy is obvious. The thirteen colonies did it in 1776. We of Iran did it in 1979.

If you choose not to employ the obvious corrective, you are complicit in whatever is done by your nation.



I made no such argument.



Again, the conclusions you prefer to draw are not of my making.

The hatred of America is longstanding, justifiable, and widespread.

Do you deny this?
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yawn
 
Nobody denies anti-American hatred exists. What I deny is your lazy collectivism.


Nuremberg did not establish that whole populations are equally guilty for everything done by a state. It established that actual decision-makers and perpetrators are liable and cannot hide behind the state.


Your standard is barbaric - big shock there terrorist boy

if citizens fail to overthrow their government, they are complicit in all its acts. By that logic, nearly every population on earth is permanently guilty of everything done in its name.
 
Nordberg said:
The only reason the other nations are not in super hate mode is we have a system that replaces the leader every 4 years, and often takes much of his power in 2, America is not hated. Trump is.
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Exactly

They all know Trump and the current Republican Party are Russian assets

They have been fighting the same shit in their nations
 
zymurgy said:
Nobody denies anti-American hatred exists. What I deny is your lazy collectivism.


Nuremberg did not establish that whole populations are equally guilty for everything done by a state. It established that actual decision-makers and perpetrators are liable and cannot hide behind the state.


Your standard is barbaric - big shock there terrorist boy

if citizens fail to overthrow their government, they are complicit in all its acts. By that logic, nearly every population on earth is permanently guilty of everything done in its name.
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Babies are guilty?

You are an idiot
 
zymurgy said:
Nobody denies anti-American hatred exists. What I deny is your lazy collectivism.
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I see no "lazy collectivism" in my remarks. If you do, that's not my responsibility.

zymurgy said:
Nuremberg did not establish that whole populations are equally guilty for everything done by a state. It established that actual decision-makers and perpetrators are liable and cannot hide behind the state.
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You've been misinformed.

zymurgy said:
Your standard is barbaric - big shock there terrorist boy
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In what way?

zymurgy said:
if citizens fail to overthrow their government, they are complicit in all its acts.
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I agree.

zymurgy said:
By that logic, nearly every population on earth is permanently guilty of everything done in its name.
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That is a logical conclusion. In fact, it's a very popular notion in the West. The Christian infidels hold to a principal known as "original sin", do they not?
 
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said:
I see no "lazy collectivism" in my remarks. If you do, that's not my responsibility.



You've been misinformed.



In what way?



I agree.



That is a logical conclusion. In fact, it's a very popular notion in the West. The Christian infidels hold to a principal known as "original sin", do they not?
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So you think babies are guilty too?


Fuck you both
 
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said:
You've been misinformed.
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derp derp

No, you are the one confusing state responsibility with personal guilt. Nuremberg did not say whole peoples are equally guilty for everything their government does. It said individuals can be held liable for international crimes and cannot hide behind “I was following orders” or “the state did it.” That is almost the defining lesson of Nuremberg.

If Nuremberg had established collective guilt of whole populations, there would have been no need to put specific defendants on trial at all. But that is exactly what happened: named officials and perpetrators were prosecuted, some convicted, and some acquitted.
 
zymurgy said:
derp derp

No, you are the one confusing state responsibility with personal guilt. Nuremberg did not say whole peoples are equally guilty for everything their government does. It said individuals can be held liable for international crimes and cannot hide behind “I was following orders” or “the state did it.” That is almost the defining lesson of Nuremberg.

If Nuremberg had established collective guilt of whole populations, there would have been no need to put specific defendants on trial at all. But that is exactly what happened: named officials and perpetrators were prosecuted, some convicted, and some acquitted.
Click to expand...

I am not sure you understood the "takeaways" of the trials.
 
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said:
I am not sure you understood the "takeaways" of the trials.
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the facts here are on my side derp stick

you are a clown show when it comes to logic

Original sin is not “everyone is personally guilty for every act committed by their rulers or ancestors.” It is a theological claim about fallen human nature, not a doctrine of universal legal or moral liability for every state action done in your name.
 
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said:
I don't agree. I wonder how the English viewed your "minutemen" in 1776.
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Of course you don't. You're a MAGAt who believes Trump when he declares those opposing or protesting him as "domestic terrorists".

The British monarchy labeled American revolutionaries as the 18th century version of terrorists, but don't all Kings hate opposition? Isn't this why @serendipity is afraid to badmouth the Pedo King of Thailand? Isn't this why all authoritarian leaders label those who oppose them to be traitors and terrorists?
 
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