Paradox for Conservatives

Micawber said:
In the final analysis the only difference is that most people agree with you and not with me, not that you are provably right by reference to this invisible and indescribably whatever that nobody has sufficiently identified.

Fair play, substantial justice, peace, prosperity, life, egality, truth.... these are bedrock as much as we can get by reason to broad inductive concepts. I don't see what "natural law" adds at all. It' a religious persons end run to skirt the law, IMO
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I don't know if most agree with me. The concept is much too vague except to discuss it philosophically. Those who support it point to the Declaration and "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." but I have not been able to get anybody to define or delineate exactly what that includes. I point out that the Declaration has no binding legal rights under the Constitution which gets some pretty nasty responses. To say we all have these rights even though most nations do not recognize or enforce them means they virtually don't exist in practice. The supporters point out that just because you cannot practice your rights does not mean they don't exist. I guess that is true, but it means they don't matter in real life.

I wouldn't limit the end run argument to religious people. I heard it used to push for gay marriage, for example, and I also know people who opposed gay marriage who were atheists.

My discussion of the state of nature was to explain a source of this concept, not to support it.
 
PoliTalker said:
You do understand that when I place a poster on Ignore it is permanent, correct? I make that clear in my Signature. If I perceive that you have no respect for me my position is: I have no reason to ever read nor respond to anything you say.

Since permanent is irreversible I do like to make sure before I take that step.

I am completely sincere in my posts. If you think there is something I'm trying to fool you about, please do elaborate.

Perhaps this can be settled rather quickly.

I offer you all the respect in the world. All you have to do is agree to the same in return.

Do we have a meeting of the minds?

Or can you not resist telling me off.

People have meaning to me.

Trolls don't.
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Burp...……... I said what I meant and I meant what I said.
 
Flash said:
Most groups in America think their group is discriminated against.
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Then they are full of shit.

Just because white people "think" they are discriminated against doesn't mean it's true.

They do the discriminating and that's a fact.
 
Dark Soul said:
As with most lies, there is a grain of truth to this. But it is a lie of omission, since the Constitution only guarantees enforcing those rights to citizens of the US.
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But if they are god given they apply t all humanity, Constitution or not!
 
TTQ64 said:
Then they are full of shit.

Just because white people "think" they are discriminated against doesn't mean it's true.

They do the discriminating and that's a fact.
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One of the things whites mention is age discrimination, which is a fact. For blacks it differs by types of discrimination. 50% say the have faced discrimination in dealing with police, 45% in trying to rent/buy housing, and 19% trying to vote or participate in politics.
 
Timshel said:
So you think it is perfectly moral to do whatever you care to, to an animal? I mean, a dung beetle is a stretch, but what about a chimp. Is it perfectly acceptable to beat it to death with a hammer for mere amusement? Is it somehow less or more wrong because of what the law says?

The argument for natural rights is a normative statement. It's a claim that certain actions are immoral regardless of what the law says. It's not a positive statement. It does not guarantee enforcement on this earth or any other plane. It's a pure abstraction and not something that can be proven to exist.

Nonetheless, I strongly support the notion of natural rights, because morality is NOT dictated by the law alone.

For instance, Trump is an immoral piece of shit whether the law and power of his office protects him from retribution or not, whether God will punish him or not and whether it ever impacts his conscience.
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It is no more moral to beat a chimp to death as it is another human.

Morality is subjective. That is evident from this forum alone, much less taking a world view of morality.

Good for you in supporting the concept of natural rights. You may well have your personal definition of what that means, but you will not find any sort of consensus on a large scale.

You and I will agree that Trump is a walking lump of human feces, but you'll find many, just on this forum alone, that think he's the best thing since sliced bread. (Back to the subjective nature of that morality thing)
 
Flash said:
One of the things whites mention is age discrimination, which is a fact. For blacks it differs by types of discrimination. 50% say the have faced discrimination in dealing with police, 45% in trying to rent/buy housing, and 19% trying to vote or participate in politics.
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*SIGH*
 
Threedee said:
He basically thinks that, even though he believes that the Declaration and Constitution are rubbish, he still wants to live here in hopes of one day dragging the country down into third-world status.
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:rofl2:

Still tossing out your laughable fecal material, I see. Your comprehension skills are quite pitiable. Were you homeschooled? Somebody sure fucked up on your language skills.

Try this, moron. Search my posts and find any evidence where I referred to either the Constitution or Declaration as rubbish. Or anything of the kind. I'll save you the time, punk. You won't.

So, that places you in good standing with the other liars on this forum. Just the type I was discussing with Politalker.
 
Mcslobber said:
He didn't. His party is tearing crying south american and mexican babies from their mommies.
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Like this?

Obama told an audience in El Paso that deportation of immigrants would focus on “violent offenders and people convicted of crimes; not families, not folks who are just looking to scrape together an income.”

Two weeks ago, however, the Department of Homeland Security released a report that flatly belies the new policy.

From January to June 2011, Immigration and Customs Enforcement removed 46,486 undocumented parents who claimed to have at least one child who is an American citizen.

In contrast, in the entire decade between 1998 and 2007, about 100,000 such parents were removed. The extraordinary acceleration in the dismantling of these families, part of the government’s efforts to meet an annual quota of about 400,000 deportations, has had devastating results.

Research by the Urban Institute and others reveals the deep and irreversible harm that parental deportation causes in the lives of their children. Having a parent ripped away permanently, without warning, is one of the most devastating and traumatic experiences in human development.

These children experience immediate household crises, starting with the loss of parental income. The harsh new economic reality causes housing and food insecurity. In response to psychological and economic disruptions, children show increased anxiety, frequent crying, changes in eating and sleeping patterns, withdrawal and anger.

In the long run, the children of deportation face increased odds of lasting economic turmoil, psychic scarring, reduced school attainment, greater difficulty in maintaining relationships, social exclusion and lower earnings. The research also exposes major misconceptions about these parents.


https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/21/opinion/deporting-parents-ruins-kids.html
 
Hello domer76,

domer76 said:
Liars and the willfully ignorant are never helpful.

Look at our President, for example. A near-perfect combination of both.
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Liars, agreed.

And of course the president is hurting the country, agreed.

But so is the polarization.

Look at the bigger picture.

Americans hating one another, the nation bitterly and dysfunctionally divided, is exactly what Putin wants.

America needs to find a way to pull together. We must reach out, try to keep lines of communication open where possible.

Some will not cooperate. They are a lost cause. No need to run others off. That just helps Putin destroy America. Do you want Putin to put another Trump in office?
 
Flash said:
Or, if she went to Wisconsin. Or, if she would have given her immigration and gay marriage views from 2012.
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https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hillary-clinton-marriage-is-always-between-a-man-and-a-woman/

Not quite. You need to go back to 2000 to get a man woman only position from her, then 2007 she voiced support for
civil unions, then in 2013 gay marriage. So her track appears to be a clear case of finger to the wind.

Hatred for Hillary isn't issue based, it is the result of a concerted effort to destroy her by using propaganda by Limbaugh,
Fox and other assorted far right mouthpieces. I've always found very little from opponents of Hillary to be fact based
almost entirely emotional argument. I've never understood it, since she so carefully positions herself to be "mainstream"
 
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