Serena Williams proves she is a liberal Nut-Bag

Phantasmal said:
The coach also stated that he didn’t think she saw him.
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That's not much of a defense. If he was signalling, it was because he thought she was looking at him (why risk it if he knew her to be looking elsewhere?) They were trying to cheat and got caught. It was a very common form of cheating, so it's not a big deal -- she should have just taken the warning in stride as others have. Lots of other players have been warned for that code violation or others like it. But she got self-righteous about it, demanding an apology and then calling him a liar and a thief. That was a dumb mistake.

Here's an example of how one should handle such a thing:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/...nded-warning-at-us-open-for-texting-his-wife/

Asked whether he thought the warning issued by Hughes was fair, Baghdatis replied: "Yeah, I mean, there is rules, so I guess I broke the rules. So I got a warning for it."

I suppose he might instead have complained that he was only singled out because he's Greek, or something like that... accusing the umpire of bigotry. But, instead, he accepted that he'd broken the rules and a warning was appropriate.

Where would they keep those statistics?
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I don't know. I know that other major sports keep stats on their refs as a form of quality control (e.g., you don't want one baseball umpire with a strike zone that's very different from another one). I assume tennis must keep stats on their officials, too. I'd be interested to see those.

I believe Billie Jean and Serena.
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I believe that they both suffered sexism in tennis. But neither made the case that this was an example of it -- they simply asserted it as a fact that we should accept. I need evidence, not just assertion.
 
Oneuli said:
That's not much of a defense. If he was signalling, it was because he thought she was looking at him (why risk it if he knew her to be looking elsewhere?) They were trying to cheat and got caught. It was a very common form of cheating, so it's not a big deal -- she should have just taken the warning in stride as others have. Lots of other players have been warned for that code violation or others like it. But she got self-righteous about it, demanding an apology and then calling him a liar and a thief. That was a dumb mistake.

Here's an example of how one should handle such a thing:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/...nded-warning-at-us-open-for-texting-his-wife/

Asked whether he thought the warning issued by Hughes was fair, Baghdatis replied: "Yeah, I mean, there is rules, so I guess I broke the rules. So I got a warning for it."

I suppose he might instead have complained that he was only singled out because he's Greek, or something like that... accusing the umpire of bigotry. But, instead, he accepted that he'd broken the rules and a warning was appropriate.



I don't know. I know that other major sports keep stats on their refs as a form of quality control (e.g., you don't want one baseball umpire with a strike zone that's very different from another one). I assume tennis must keep stats on their officials, too. I'd be interested to see those.



I believe that they both suffered sexism in tennis. But neither made the case that this was an example of it -- they simply asserted it as a fact that we should accept. I need evidence, not just assertion.
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That’s fine, I just choose to believe them, if you need evidence that is fine as well. I don’t feel I need to defend my opinion to you.
 
Thing1 said:
It wasn't political. She was just being a poor sport because she was losing.

Most of our great athletes have been pretty poor sports about that, because they're so competitive that they truly hate losing. But I thought it was a shame that she took that moment away from the eventual champion.
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You mean like the poor sports Democrats have been since they lost an election in 2016?
 
Phantasmal said:
That’s fine, I just choose to believe them, if you need evidence that is fine as well. I don’t feel I need to defend my opinion to you.
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If this were a case where Williams and King said "we witnessed the umpire agree to throw the match," then it would come down to whether I think they're trustworthy eye witnesses or not. They'd either be lying or telling the truth, and my question would simply be whether to believe they saw what they say they saw. But I think this is different. What they're effectively trying to do is read his mind -- to guess at why it was he behaved the way he did. If they have reasons to believe that sexism is what drove his behavior, I think they should explain what evidence they see for that. I don't think they've done that, aside from conflating his individual ruling with a pattern of sexist behavior within the sport generally. Without a reason for individualized suspicion against him, I think it's too inflammatory a charge to make.

One of the arguments I've seen made against him is the idea that other players have berated him in the past without getting docked points or games. I'm sure that's true.... and I'm sure you can find examples of women getting away with it. In fact, you can find examples of Williams getting away with it right in that match. She verbally attacked him again and again without any resulting penalty, escalating it repeatedly. Finally, she called him a liar and a thief, and he hit her with the penalty. That's an argument against the idea that he penalized her for "verbal abuse while female," since she was just as female when he didn't penalize her for verbal abuse. Rather, it looks like he penalized her for the persistence and escalation of the abuse through the course of the match. To make a case that was about her being a woman, I'd want to see evidence of a pattern of behavior where he ignored similar persistent and escalating abuse from men. I haven't seen that yet. If King and Williams have seen it, they haven't shared it.
 
Oneuli said:
If this were a case where Williams and King said "we witnessed the umpire agree to throw the match," then it would come down to whether I think they're trustworthy eye witnesses or not. They'd either be lying or telling the truth, and my question would simply be whether to believe they saw what they say they saw. But I think this is different. What they're effectively trying to do is read his mind -- to guess at why it was he behaved the way he did. If they have reasons to believe that sexism is what drove his behavior, I think they should explain what evidence they see for that. I don't think they've done that, aside from conflating his individual ruling with a pattern of sexist behavior within the sport generally. Without a reason for individualized suspicion against him, I think it's too inflammatory a charge to make.

One of the arguments I've seen made against him is the idea that other players have berated him in the past without getting docked points or games. I'm sure that's true.... and I'm sure you can find examples of women getting away with it. In fact, you can find examples of Williams getting away with it right in that match. She verbally attacked him again and again without any resulting penalty, escalating it repeatedly. Finally, she called him a liar and a thief, and he hit her with the penalty. That's an argument against the idea that he penalized her for "verbal abuse while female," since she was just as female when he didn't penalize her for verbal abuse. Rather, it looks like he penalized her for the persistence and escalation of the abuse through the course of the match. To make a case that was about her being a woman, I'd want to see evidence of a pattern of behavior where he ignored similar persistent and escalating abuse from men. I haven't seen that yet. If King and Williams have seen it, they haven't shared it.
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Again, you are entitled to your opinion, I do not agree with it and now other women tennis players are speaking out on Twitter about Serena’s treatment. We will have to agree to disagree.
 
Phantasmal said:
Again, you are entitled to your opinion, I do not agree with it and now other women tennis players are speaking out on Twitter about Serena’s treatment. We will have to agree to disagree.
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Fair enough. If you can think of any argument in favor of your position, though, just let me know.
 
Phantasmal said:
Again, you are entitled to your opinion, I do not agree with it and now other women tennis players are speaking out on Twitter about Serena’s treatment. We will have to agree to disagree.
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further evidence, liberals have gone full on nut-bag

everything is "poor little ole me"

"It's not faiiiirrrrr"

:cry:
 
Oneuli said:
Fair enough. If you can think of any argument in favor of your position, though, just let me know.
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There are no statistics on Ramos as a ump, only stories of how he warned male players numerous times and Serena was never warned, just penalized. You stated you needed statistical evidence and there is no such thing, so our conversation on this matter is done.
 
Phantasmal said:
There are no statistics on Ramos as a ump, only stories of how he warned male players numerous times and Serena was never warned, just penalized. You stated you needed statistical proof and there is no such thing, so our conversation on this matter is done.
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whaaaaa whaaaaa, "I'm not talking to you annnny more" whaaaa whaaaa

:rofl2:
 
Phantasmal said:
There are no statistics on Ramos as a ump, only stories of how he warned male players numerous times and Serena was never warned, just penalized. You stated you needed statistical evidence and there is no such thing, so our conversation on this matter is done.
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I expect there is statistical evidence, though I haven't seen it yet. Given what an incendiary charge was made against him, I hope more evidence comes out, so we can say more definitively if he was just an innocent caught in the cross-hairs of a powerful player's off-hand attack, or if he really does have a pattern of tougher behavior with female players.
 
Phantasmal said:
There are no statistics on Ramos as a ump, only stories of how he warned male players numerous times and Serena was never warned, just penalized. You stated you needed statistical evidence and there is no such thing, so our conversation on this matter is done.
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She was warned....
 
Irthriuth said:
plenty of hot heads, you are right. but they never pretended to be the victim or claim some conspiracy against them when they got infractions for their poor behavior. Serena thinks her shit doesn't stink
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Yeah there's something special about Serena's fits cus she's a woman and pulled the sexism card out of her hat when she was throwing a tantrum

That's an unforgivable sin to the modern right, it's OK to be a racist or a sexist, accusing someone of being such is the real crime

McEnroe is awesome for sperging 20x as hard tho
 
i dont follow tennis so im curious what the argument is that says its racism? Was her opponent white and getting all the good calls or something?
 
Oneuli said:
I expect there is statistical evidence, though I haven't seen it yet. Given what an incendiary charge was made against him, I hope more evidence comes out, so we can say more definitively if he was just an innocent caught in the cross-hairs of a powerful player's off-hand attack, or if he really does have a pattern of tougher behavior with female players.
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The initial code violation for coaching was slightly BS, it's rarely enforced and there are instances of much more obvious coaching than a hand signal that have not been enforced. She may not have even seen the coaching (of course, she would always claim that one way or the other). The coach giving a hand signal absolutely did violate the rules though. It's just a shitty rule that's rarely enforced (literally you will often have coaches and athletes screaming to one another with the umpires not giving a shit).
 
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