Serious question here: If Floyd died from neck compression as claimed.....

The handcuffed victim reached into his back pocket and somehow managed to swallow an overdose of the illegally obtained barbiturates he had hidden there. It was so fast the camera missed it but it proves he actually committed suicide. Does that spin work for you OP? :wall:
 
Grajonca said:
My main objection to waterboarding it wasn't very effective, can't say I was ever that concerned about a particularly monstrous Islamic terrorist suffering from it. Real suffering in my book is being burnt alive, electrocuted, having your genitals crushed etc. Abu Ghraib was different that was real torture to my mind.
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The United States waterboarded innocent people.

Torture is not consistent with American values.

If you want Muslims tortured, ask your own country to do it, and stop looking to my country to do your dirty work
 
domer76 said:
Yeah, just an amazing coincidence that all his preexisting conditions magically converged at the same moment cops were kneeling on his neck.

Will wonders never cease?
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You DO understand that "preexisting conditions" are with one all the time, 24/7/365, right?

I mean, there is no such thing as an occasional, intermittent, "comes & goes" heart condition.

You understand that.... don't you? :dunno:
 
Nomad said:
....why was he able move and reposition his head and neck at various points?

I know this video only shows about one minute of an incident that lasted eight or nine minutes, but look closely at Chauvin's knee. He keeps relaxing or adjusting his weight, allowing Floyd to move his head around a little bit.

Most noticeably around the :37 point....


You can see Floyd reposition his head and Chauvin's knee seems moves a little to accommodate him as well.

So if Chauvin was intent on using lethal or brutal force on Floyd, why would he allow even the slightest movement of the head and neck?

Even by the sort of casual looking way Chavin seems to be crouched, it doesn't really look like he's bearing down on Floyd with all of his weight. One knee looks to be on the pavement behind Floyd, supporting most of his weight, the other is on the back of Floyd's head and neck and appears to just be attempting to hold him still.

All I am suggesting here, before some of you start screaming RACIST!!!!! at me, is that there are too many unanswered questions to be condemning Chauvin for at this stage.

If, when the autopsy report is released, it affirms that Floyd died as the result of a crushed windpipe or asphyxiation due to excessive weight on his neck or back etc, then I will join the choir in calling for his conviction.

But until then, I am going to remain open to all possibilities.
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If only more people would have done that.

With Floyd in that position with the cops knee right over his neck—the cop could have seriously injured or even killed Floyd instantly, and with little effort. In fact, the defense may well argue that the cop would’ve had to have made a conscious effort to not seriously injure Floyd.

This whole thing is so jacked. With luck, manslaughter will hold up. If not..I don’t want to think about it.
 
Cypress said:
The United States waterboarded innocent people.

Torture is not consistent with American values.

If you want Muslims tortured, ask your own country to do it, and stop looking to my country to do your dirty work
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Apparently signature drone strikes in Waziristan were consistent with American values though!! I daresay more than a few were innocent as well but that didn't stop St. Obama sanctioning them, did it Crypiss?
 
Grajonca said:
Apparently signature drone strikes in Waziristan were consistent with American values though!! I daresay more than a few were innocent as well but that didn't stop St. Obama sanctioning them, did it Crypiss?
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Worry about your own country, fucking Limey
 
Grajonca said:
Apparently signature drone strikes in Waziristan were consistent with American values though!! I daresay more than a few were innocent as well but that didn't stop St. Obama sanctioning them, did it Crypiss?
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Not really the same thing.

Torturing prisoners in custody is not the same as ordering necessary air strikes, even knowing innocents may die as an unavoidable consequence.

We weren't purposely killing civilians in the air strikes, but the torture was 100% deliberate.
 
Nomad said:
....why was he able move and reposition his head and neck at various points?

I know this video only shows about one minute of an incident that lasted eight or nine minutes, but look closely at Chauvin's knee. He keeps relaxing or adjusting his weight, allowing Floyd to move his head around a little bit.

Most noticeably around the :37 point....


You can see Floyd reposition his head and Chauvin's knee seems moves a little to accommodate him as well.

So if Chauvin was intent on using lethal or brutal force on Floyd, why would he allow even the slightest movement of the head and neck?

Even by the sort of casual looking way Chavin seems to be crouched, it doesn't really look like he's bearing down on Floyd with all of his weight. One knee looks to be on the pavement behind Floyd, supporting most of his weight, the other is on the back of Floyd's head and neck and appears to just be attempting to hold him still.

All I am suggesting here, before some of you start screaming RACIST!!!!! at me, is that there are too many unanswered questions to be condemning Chauvin for at this stage.

If, when the autopsy report is released, it affirms that Floyd died as the result of a crushed windpipe or asphyxiation due to excessive weight on his neck or back etc, then I will join the choir in calling for his conviction.

But until then, I am going to remain open to all possibilities.
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Fuck you bootlicker! Fuck the fascist police doctor and his show autopsy! Time to riot!
 
Grajonca said:
I have yet to see a video of him being thrown to the ground, is there one? I think the most likely explanation is he had a heart attack, but how about we all wait for the medical examiner's report?
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He was in the cop car, they literally could have just shut the doors (they do this at one point after roughing him up a bit). There's a cage in the back of that car, he was already in cuffs. Instead they pulled him out and sat on his neck.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/05/31/george-floyd-police-car-video-vpx.cnn

FYI the cop who sat on his neck worked at the same job as George Floyd elsewhere, people think this may have actually been a murder motivated by the fact the cop knew him.
 
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Nomad said:
Not really the same thing.

Torturing prisoners in custody is not the same as ordering necessary air strikes, even knowing innocents may die as an unavoidable consequence.

We weren't purposely killing civilians in the air strikes, but the torture was 100% deliberate.
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No they are not the same, you're right. With drones the innocent and the guilty die regardless, with waterboarding nobody died. Indeed no doubt the innocent ended up with a very nice payday, as did those that were subjected to extraordinary rendition by MI6.
 
Phantasmal said:
It makes no difference, he died as a result of these cops actions. It’s why the 3rd degree murder charge.
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i think it does make a difference, if they were holding him by the shoulders I dont think we would be having this conversation. the whole issue orginaly was people thinking the guy strangled to death.

mind you, I am not saying the cop isn't guilty, but now I have a more open mind and I'll let the court sort it out
 
Grajonca said:
Don't doubt that but again I can't say I was ever that overly concerned with the form used by CIA. I would call that sensory disorientation, you call it torture.

Wasn't Khalid Sheikh Mohammed ‘waterboarded’ 183 times by the way?
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I don't know the exact number of times but obviously it didn't work so why do it in the first place?
 
FUCK THE POLICE said:
He was in the cop car, they literally could have just shut the doors (they do this at one point after roughing him up a bit). There's a cage in the back of that car, he was already in coughs. Instead they pulled him out and sat on his neck.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/05/31/george-floyd-police-car-video-vpx.cnn

FYI the cop who sat on his neck worked at the same job as George Floyd elsewhere, people think this may have actually been a murder motivated by the fact the cop knew him.
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Yes I know that they worked at the same club but Floyd was a bouncer on the door whereas Chauvin worked inside. Still like to know why, if he wanted to kill him he choose such a public place with many witnesses?
 
Grajonca said:
No they are not the same, you're right. With drones the innocent and the guilty die regardless, with waterboarding nobody died. Indeed no doubt the innocent ended up with a very nice payday, as did those that were subjected to extraordinary rendition by MI6.
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I don't actually agree with waterboarding but I do enjoy you calling the libs on their Obama worship hypocrisy.
 
Phantasmal said:
Systemic change is needed. We saw unwarranted police brutality still happening during the protest. We need to clean law enforcement and the justice system of all the rotten cops and prosecutors. Blacks are tired of lip service and empty promises.

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/402521/doc-26-white-supremacist-infiltration.pdf
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Lol. I've seen real racism and whatever there is in America isn't it. You can even justify calling it as racist because no one would believe you do your side had to come up with the systemic racism word. If blacks had a choice they would still choose to be born in the USA rather than elsewhere.

I suspect that the ills you mention which do exist are more a function of socioeconomic class rather than race. A Micheal Jordan would still be treated like a king anywhere he went. If the USA was truly a racist country he wouldn't be.
 
tsuke said:
Lol. I've seen real racism and whatever there is in America isn't it. You can even justify calling it as racist because no one would believe you do your side had to come up with the systemic racism word. If blacks had a choice they would still choose to be born in the USA rather than elsewhere.

I suspect that the ills you mention which do exist are more a function of socioeconomic class rather than race. A Micheal Jordan would still be treated like a king anywhere he went. If the USA was truly a racist country he wouldn't be.
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You cannot define it away with exceptions. Logic does network that way. Money buys you entrances that the people have no idea even exist.
 
tsuke said:
Lol. I've seen real racism and whatever there is in America isn't it. You can even justify calling it as racist because no one would believe you do your side had to come up with the systemic racism word. If blacks had a choice they would still choose to be born in the USA rather than elsewhere.

I suspect that the ills you mention which do exist are more a function of socioeconomic class rather than race. A Micheal Jordan would still be treated like a king anywhere he went. If the USA was truly a racist country he wouldn't be.
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It's amazing to me that people think racism in America is over. I've heard some say that it ended w/ civil rights in the '60's.

That's no reality. We've made amazing strides, but we still have a long way to go. That is indisputable.
 
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