Sorry Obama, But It's Trump's Economic Boom, Not Yours

[Iolo/Penderyn]

Everything he does works and the Left hates it.

Name any one thing Trumpf has ever done, let alone one that 'worked'. The man is totally incompetent, as everyone off drugs knows. You really think, for instance, that this fat shit, unlike . say, Stalin, can control the economy You are off your trolley matey!

 

[Micawber]

Trump hasn't done anything except rattle the cage of Wall Street and scared everyone with tariffs.


Dow would be 40K under Obama right now.

 

[Getin the ring]

Again the brain dead refuse to admit the obvious,

thing is the obvious is just that, obvious,

but I admire your being able to still breath with your heads stuck so deep in the sand

 

[Micawber]

Maybe 45 k

 

[LV426]

To think this could be solved by limiting who is allowed to vote based on who actually has a moderate knowledge of politics and history.

We shouldn't limit the voting franchise at all.

Instead, we should be encouraging 100% voter turnout.

If everyone participates in this democracy, Conservatives and Republicans would never win another election again.

We have to vote in numbers so overwhelming, they cannot rig it without causing civil unrest.

Conservatives don't want people to vote; liberals want everyone to vote.

 

[LV426]

Everything he does works and the Left hates it.

Last year, you clowns promised at least 3% growth if your shitty tax cut was passed.

Actual growth: 2.85%. Which is below Obama's best GDP growth of 2.88% in 2015.

So Trump, even with a stupid tax cut, couldn't beat Obama.

 

[StoneByStone]

We shouldn't limit the voting franchise at all.

Instead, we should be encouraging 100% voter turnout.

If everyone participates in this democracy, Conservatives and Republicans would never win another election again.

We have to vote in numbers so overwhelming, they cannot rig it without causing civil unrest.

Conservatives don't want people to vote; liberals want everyone to vote.

But should everyone be voting? Right now we have people voting for Trump because they're dumb enough to believe that Obama outlawed saying "Merry Christmas."
I think in order to vote, you should be under 60, have an IQ of 100 or higher, and have a basic understanding of politics.

 

[LV426]

But should everyone be voting? Right now we have people voting for Trump because they're dumb enough to believe that Obama outlawed saying "Merry Christmas."

Stupid people is an inevitability in a free society.

The strategy should be to overwhelm them instead of disenfranchising them. Disenfranchisement is what they do; we should be expanding the franchise instead of thinking ways we could limit it to benefit us. The only true benefit to us is high turnout. That requires everyone voting, even the stupids.

I happen to think that most of the voting-age people in this country aren't stupid like the Conservatives on this board, they're just disaffected and lazy because there's no sense of urgency for them. But now that Conservative policy is starting to directly affect people in a negative way, makes it that much easier for us to convince a non-voter to vote against cruelty.

Instead of fighting for a small sliver of the pie, just make the pie larger. Then you don't have to concern yourself with the small sliver of attention-seekers and entitled pricks.

I think in order to vote, you should be under 60, have an IQ of 100 or higher, and have a basic understanding of politics.

Well, IQ tests are BS and while I don't think anyone over the age of 65 should be allowed to hold public office, I do kind of agree that there should be a cut off age for voting. Someone who is 80 years old is not going to have to live the next 60 years of their life under the policies of the people they voted for. But someone 15 years old does have to live with those consequences.

So I can see the validity in the argument of cutting off voting ages. I'm just not sure what that cutoff should be.

As for the civics...well...I think this issue is solved by mandating every school take a federally-funded and provided civics class to educate students prior to them becoming eligible to vote. Trouble with things like this is that they are poll tests, and I don't think we should be doing that.

We should concentrate on achieving 100% turnout. That should be everyone's sole focus.

 

[StoneByStone]

Stupid people is an inevitability in a free society.

The strategy should be to overwhelm them instead of disenfranchising them. Disenfranchisement is what they do; we should be expanding the franchise instead of thinking ways we could limit it to benefit us. The only true benefit to us is high turnout. That requires everyone voting, even the stupids.

But if the average person is either stupid, ignorant of politics, of both, then having everyone voting will continue the cycle of electing conservative presidents who cause recessions.

And I'm not saying we should take away freedom. It's just that voting should be a privilege, not a right. If anything, that would make us a more free society.

I happen to think that most of the voting-age people in this country aren't stupid like the Conservatives on this board, they're just disaffected and lazy because there's no sense of urgency for them. But now that Conservative policy is starting to directly affect people in a negative way, makes it that much easier for us to convince a non-voter to vote against cruelty.

Yeah, which means they might vote out Trump, but then after things get good again, the next generation will just vote in another Conservative. And look at how terrible the Democrats have gotten. They all want open borders because the average person doesn't know that open borders means lower wages.

Well, IQ tests are BS and while I don't think anyone over the age of 65 should be allowed to hold public office, I do kind of agree that there should be a cut off age for voting. Someone who is 80 years old is not going to have to live the next 60 years of their life under the policies of the people they voted for. But someone 15 years old does have to live with those consequences.

IQ tests aren't perfect, but they're the best measurement of intelligence that we have right now. Maybe in the future, we'll have something better, but for now I say we should use IQ tests.

 

[LV426]

But if the average person is either stupid, ignorant of politics, of both, then having everyone voting will continue the cycle of electing conservative presidents who cause recessions.

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I don't think the average person is as dumb as the Conservatives are. I think the average person is a lot more savvy and intelligent than they get credit for. I think people mistake laziness or apathy for stupidity, but that couldn't be more wrong.

I think when pressed most of the non-voters would cast their ballots for anyone but Conservatives, it's just a matter of engaging and energizing them. I think you do that by offering polices and proposals that are well-thought out and comprehensive. I also think you need big ideas, not incremental slow ones.

Tax cuts don't get people excited...but Medicare for All does.

Incremental regulation doesn't get people excited...but breaking up monopolies and big banks does.

Compromising with bad faith is why so many voters are cynical and apathetic. It's why they see no point in exercising the franchise; why bother voting if it's just going to get watered down to accommodate a small sliver of the population that is insane? That's why we need to overwhelm them everywhere.

 

[LV426]

Yeah, which means they might vote out Trump, but then after things get good again, the next generation will just vote in another Conservative.

Will they? Why would they? That would require Conservatism to re-brand itself, and it wasted all that capital 10 years ago, when they all stapled teabags to their faces and screamed about birth certificates and debt.

If we can score a knockout blow in 2020, we can pass reforms that can prevent Conservatives from ever gaining political influence again; we do that by guaranteeing everyone has a right to vote, by reforming the campaign finance system, and by reforming how our elections are run and financed.

There was one thing Gillibrand said in the debate that made perfect sense; we can't make any systemic, broad changes unless we tackle the problem of money in politics first.

 

[StoneByStone]

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I don't think the average person is as dumb as the Conservatives are. I think the average person is a lot more savvy and intelligent than they get credit for. I think people mistake laziness or apathy for stupidity, but that couldn't be more wrong.

I actually agree. The average person is either stupid or apathetic. But apathy can be just as bad. Plenty of people, maybe even the majority of people, are smart but don't care about the issues. They voted for Trump because he's funny and entertaining. We can get these people excited about politics, but they still won't vote based on issues because they put feels over reals.

 

[LV426]

And look at how terrible the Democrats have gotten. They all want open borders because the average person doesn't know that open borders means lower wages.

No...open borders isn't why wages are low.

Wages are low simply because of greed.

Without "open borders", wages would still be what they are today because the vast majority of the workforce is unaffected by immigration.

Immigrants aren't why your wage hasn't grown in 2 decades; corporate greed is.

We need immigrants because we need to keep the population growing to sustain the retirement of future generations, now that so many Millennials are not starting families.

Also, it's not the Democrats putting kids in concentration camps.

 

[LV426]

IQ tests aren't perfect, but they're the best measurement of intelligence that we have right now.

No, they are certainly not.

 

[LV426]

I actually agree. The average person is either stupid or apathetic. But apathy can be just as bad. Plenty of people, maybe even the majority of people, are smart but don't care about the issues. They voted for Trump because he's funny and entertaining. We can get these people excited about politics, but they still won't vote based on issues because they put feels over reals.

I think it's easier to convince an apathetic voter to vote against concentration camps, than it is to convince a stupid voter to not be stupid.

We only had 56% turnout in 2016. That's shitty. If that number was 20 points higher, Trump would have lost almost every single state.

 

[StoneByStone]

No...open borders isn't why wages are low.

Wages are low simply because of greed.

Without "open borders", wages would still be what they are today because the vast majority of the workforce is unaffected by immigration.

Immigrants aren't why your wage hasn't grown in 2 decades; corporate greed is.

We need immigrants because we need to keep the population growing to sustain the retirement of future generations, now that so many Millennials are not starting families.

Also, it's not the Democrats putting kids in concentration camps.

It's both immigration and corporate greed. When there are lots of low-skilled immigrants from the third world here, greedy companies can pay minimum wage. When there are less low-skilled people here, companies need to fight over them, which means wages go up. That's why wages are going up now.

One of the biggest reasons Millennials aren't having kids is because of college debt. Giving universal college and health care would get people having kids again.

The concentration camp situation is terrible. I think Trump is right for limiting immigration, but the way he's going about it is very inhumane.

 

[LV426]

It's both immigration and corporate greed. When there are lots of low-skilled immigrants from the third world here, greedy companies can pay minimum wage.

Wait - stop. Who says they're low-skill? Do you know how to cultivate a field for farming? Do you know how to butcher an animal? Do you know how to landscape? Do you know how to take care of kids?

Just because the work is physical doesn't mean it's low-skill.

You're mixing up low-skill with low-wage.

There's a great twitter thread about this very thing and it relates to California farming by Japanese immigrants in the early 20th century. Those immigrants brought their techniques with them which had a profound impact on the development and growth of US farming. Hispanic immigrants are doing the same thing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/981236024230711296

 

[LV426]

When there are less low-skilled people here, companies need to fight over them, which means wages go up. That's why wages are going up now.

You're confusing low-skill with low-wage.

One of those is a subjective judgment, and the other is an objective judgment. Try to guess which is which?

Just because someone decided at some point that labor-intensive jobs immigrants typically get were "low skill" doesn't mean that's actually the case.

As the thread on Japanese farming pre-WWII in California said, these immigrants were HIGH SKILL workers who brought their techniques with them that ultimately impacted US agrobusiness as a whole. Latinx migrants are doing the same thing.

The reason wages haven't grown is because the top 1% are taking all the gains, and they're convincing you that immigrants are to blame for them increasing their own wealth by exponential numbers over the last 40 or so years...

Why are you getting mad at the migrant who is coming here to work, and not the business that pays them low wages?

Why not force those companies who hire migrants to pay them higher wages, thus causing higher wages for everyone else?

Why are you not looking at it that way? Is it because you're xenophobic?

 

[StoneByStone]

Wait - stop. Who says they're low-skill? Do you know how to cultivate a field for farming? Do you know how to butcher an animal? Do you know how to landscape? Do you know how to take care of kids?

Just because the work is physical doesn't mean it's low-skill.

You're mixing up low-skill with low-wage.

Yes, that's what I meant. Third world immigrants usually take low-paying jobs. Which leads to a surplus of people doing these jobs, and that's why wages decrease. Even Sanders admitted this.

 

[LV426]

One of the biggest reasons Millennials aren't having kids is because of college debt. Giving universal college and health care would get people having kids again.

Definitely. Which is why I support Sanders and Omar's debt forgiveness and free college plan.

The concentration camp situation is terrible. I think Drumpf is right for limiting immigration, but the way he's going about it is very inhumane.

Immigration quotas are inherently racist. They always have been. Trump isn't doing anything for you economically by limiting immigration; all he's doing is being a racist piece of shit.

Mark my words; there is no benefit to the economy by limiting immigration. NONE. ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY NONE.