“Supreme Court asked to review men-only military draft law”

Walt said:
An invasion of Japan would have been very bad for America, and Japan.

One fact that many forget is that the USSR had already taken over Manchuria, and half of Korea. They were going to invade Japan also, and then Japan would have been divided like Germany.
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I'm glad you and I are rational enough to understand that it was better for both American and Japan that we dropped the bombs on them.

:blowup::blowup:
 
SmarterthanYou said:
did you not say "our winning record with a conscripted military isn't fabulous"?????

do you think it's the fault of our military that they lost vietnam?
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A higher percentage of men were drafted in WWII than in Vietnam.


There was no way to win Vietnam. A group fighting those invading their country has a lot more at stake and tactical advantages than the invading forces.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
that alone should tell us that we are no longer a free people and serve at the behest of government. any who believes otherwise is just a moron
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Men were conscripted in the Revolutionary War and Civil War. If that makes us "no longer" free then we weren't free then, either.
 
Flash said:
A higher percentage of men were drafted in WWII than in Vietnam.


There was no way to win Vietnam. A group fighting those invading their country has a lot more at stake and tactical advantages than the invading forces.
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the political atmosphere from politicians prevented any success in vietnam
 
SmarterthanYou said:
the political atmosphere from politicians prevented any success in vietnam
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What would success have looked like in Vietnam? They were never going to stop fighting, as long as we were there. If we had stayed there, we could still be fighting the Vietnam War today, 60 years later.

Vietnam is now eager to be an ally of ours, and eager to take investment from us. It has a lot of problems, but it is turning itself around, and is no friend of China.

It kind of makes you wonder what would have happened if we had supported independence for Vietnam in the first place... Or even if we had just not gotten in the way. Yes, Vietnam would not have been perfect, but would they have been our enemy? Did the Vietnam War make anything better?
 
SmarterthanYou said:
the political atmosphere from politicians prevented any success in vietnam
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But there could be no long-term victory regardless of the political atmosphere. It was foolish to think the military could successfully win that war. The Vietnamese would continue fighting a guerilla war forever just as the U. S. would if we were invaded and occupied.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
both wars had both sides not operating within a constitution.......so forced servitude was inevitable
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The original Constitution allowed involuntary servitude, that was not a problem until after the Civil War, with the 13th Amendment.

The Supreme Court has found that serving in the military is not servitude. It is covered under the Constitutional right to "raise, and support armies." There is the obvious requirement to give "due process", but not the absolute freedom you want.
 
Walt said:
What would success have looked like in Vietnam? They were never going to stop fighting, as long as we were there. If we had stayed there, we could still be fighting the Vietnam War today, 60 years later.
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I don't know how much of the history of the war you do know, but we were prohibited from bombing hanoi, period. the only real bombing targets were 'suspected' targets. The southern peoples were never given opportunity to join us in 'hearts and minds' because the first time they were forced to join in with the north or die, it became a near scorched earth policy from that point. it was lost to us forevermore and served only to enrich the MIC
 
Flash said:
But there could be no long-term victory regardless of the political atmosphere. It was foolish to think the military could successfully win that war. The Vietnamese would continue fighting a guerilla war forever just as the U. S. would if we were invaded and occupied.
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they said the same thing about iwo jima.......the solomon islands campaign.....yet we won. had the military not been collared and leashed by politicians, we'd have won.
 
Walt said:
The original Constitution allowed involuntary servitude, that was not a problem until after the Civil War, with the 13th Amendment.
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if you're referring to slavery, it's not relevant

Walt said:
The Supreme Court has found that serving in the military is not servitude. It is covered under the Constitutional right to "raise, and support armies." There is the obvious requirement to give "due process", but not the absolute freedom you want.
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are you one of those that thinks the government gets to define the constitution and the limits of it's own powers as prescribed by the constitution?
 
SmarterthanYou said:
I don't know how much of the history of the war you do know, but we were prohibited from bombing hanoi, period.
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Hanoi was heavily bombed repeatedly. Even late in the war, there was the Christmas Bombing of Hanoi in 1972. You will point out there were times that bombing Hanoi was off limits, but there were other times that Hanoi was flattened. It made no difference.

We could not bomb the Vietnamese into not wanting us gone. To make matters worse, it is not easy to bomb a mostly rural people.

the only real bombing targets were 'suspected' targets. The southern peoples were never given opportunity to join us in 'hearts and minds' because the first time they were forced to join in with the north or die, it became a near scorched earth policy from that point. it was lost to us forevermore and served only to enrich the MIC[/QUOTE]
 
SmarterthanYou said:
they said the same thing about iwo jima.......the solomon islands campaign.....yet we won. had the military not been collared and leashed by politicians, we'd have won.
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No they did not. Iwo Jima had absolutely no native population wishing us gone, and the Solomon Islands' native population welcomed us as liberators.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
they said the same thing about iwo jima.......the solomon islands campaign.....yet we won. had the military not been collared and leashed by politicians, we'd have won.
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Iwo Jima had 20,000 Japanese troops on a barren island fighting away from their homeland and all the civilians were removed. Vietnam had 40 million of whom many in both the north and south opposed foreign invaders just as they had the French, Chinese, Japanese. That is the situation we wanted to avoid with an invasion of Japan.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
did you not say "our winning record with a conscripted military isn't fabulous"?????

do you think it's the fault of our military that they lost vietnam?
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No, but whether it did or it didn't was totally irrelevant to my comment anyway.
The very last thing that I need, however, is your perspective on Vietnam.
Think about it, OK?
 
NiftyNiblick said:
No, but whether it did or it didn't was totally irrelevant to my comment anyway.
The very last thing that I need, however, is your perspective on Vietnam.
Think about it, OK?
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you should start limiting how much you drink during the day. it's really starting to affect your ability to stay on track or avoid getting butthurt from being wrong so much
 
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