The Biggest POTUS blunder of all time... PROVE ME WRONG!

[Dutch Uncle]

HaHa, you had to backtrack and look up the answer

So you were completely wrong when you claimed North Korea developed the nuclear bomb under Obama.

​

Wow. It doesn't surprise me the MAGA morons are poorly educated. I remember when Clinton was taking heat for trying to buy off the North Koreans on developing nukes. Their first known nuke test was under GW.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

And, here I thought the biggest blunder ever by a POTUS was Buchanan doing nothing about rebellion starting in the South and let the Civil War occur.

 

[QP!]

And, here I thought the biggest blunder ever by a POTUS was Buchanan doing nothing about rebellion starting in the South and let the Civil War occur.

That one is in the debate and is probably a leader but the history of Trump's North korea nuke blunder is not yet fully written.

In Trump's own words and the US view, N.Korea was/is one of the most dangerous countries in the world to have allowed to get nukes. If they use and depending on where, Trumps mistake will have its place in history.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

That one is in the debate and is probably a leader but the history of Trump's North korea nuke blunder is not yet fully written.

Get back to me on that one when N. Korea starts a nuclear war. Until then, it's just another little shit of a country that has no significance in the world.

In Trump's own words and the US view, N.Korea was/is one of the most dangerous countries in the world to have allowed to get nukes. If they use and depending on where, Trumps mistake will have its place in history.

Oh, so now you believe Trump at his word do you? What a 180 that was. Neck snapping!

 

[Diogenes]

The claimant bears the burden of proof. OP is a faggot.

 

[Grokmaster]

.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Hmmm which incredibly weak leader was POTUS when N.Korea ignored their threats and bluster and took their 'testing program' nuclear program fully operational while flexing to the US that they also just built ICBM that could reach the US? Who ever could it be who was in charge???

While Kim Jong Un already possessed nuclear bombs, 2017 was the year North Korea proved it could miniaterize warheads and deliver them to the American mainland, prompting the infamous "fire and fury" rhetorical standoff: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

• First True Hydrogen Bomb (September 2017): North Korea conducted its sixth and most powerful nuclear test to date—a thermonuclear device estimated to be up to 10 times more powerful than their previous bombs. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
• ICBM Capability (November 2017): Kim Jong Un successfully test-fired the Hwasong-15 Intercontinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM), demonstrating a flight trajectory capable of reaching anywhere in the continental United States. [1]
• Completion Declaration: Following these 2017 breakthroughs, Kim Jong Un officially declared North Korea’s nuclear deterrent "complete." [1]

Following this intense period of rapid development, Trump and Kim pivoted to direct diplomacy, resulting in historic face-to-face summits in Singapore (2018) and Hanoi (2019)...

Clinton gave them the reactors.



He also allowed the sale of advanced guided missile tech to China, to enrich the wife of then-Senate majority leader Tom Daschle, whose wife was the lobbyist for LORAL, (the company involved) with advanced Chinese guided missile tech by 25+ years.

 

[Cypress]

His position is both...

- don't blame GWb Jr as the nuke program development preceding him, even if the first bomb was finished and detonated on his watch...

AND

- do blame Obama and HRC as they did not do enough to stop N.Korea program during their terms ...

Somehow the shield he throws up to protect GWB JR from all blame (the program proceeded him) is in no way applicable to Obama and HRC.

GWB jr, who had the first nuke, and Trump then later the far more powerful fully operational nuke and ICBM escape all blame by his logic while the Dems in the middle of them should have been the ones to stop it.

he is offering clown shoes to everyone to go along with that lack of logic.

MAGA morons don't think for themselves, I'm sure somebody on FOX told him that NK developed their nuclear weapon under Obama's watch.

It was really funny to see him frantically backtrack and look up the answer when I told him he was wrong

 

[QP!]

Get back to me on that one when N. Korea starts a nuclear war. Until then, it's just another little shit of a country that has no significance in the world.


Oh, so now you believe Trump at his word do you? What a 180 that was. Neck snapping!

What is interesting is that you guys believe Trump when it comes to Iran being this massive threat, when the exact same rhetoric or worse was used for years about N.Korea as to why they could never be allowed to get a nuke and then they do get them and now no one cares and Trump praises them.

That does not tell you that what Trump says should be considered bullshit near 100% of the time.

 

[QP!]

Clinton gave them the reactors.



He also allowed the sale of advanced guided missile tech to China, to enrich the wife of then-Senate majority leader Tom Daschle, whose wife was the lobbyist for LORAL, (the company involved) with advanced Chinese guided missile tech by 25+ years.

The fact check of this statement shows it to false and blends separate historical events and conspiracy theories. President Bill Clinton did not "give" North Korea nuclear weapons capability, nor was the Loral-China satellite export controversy connected to Tom Daschle’s wife. [1, 2, 3]

The North Korea Reactors (The 1994 Agreed Framework)

• • The Claim: Clinton gave North Korea reactors. [1]
  • The Facts: Under the 1994 Agreed Framework, the Clinton administration negotiated a freeze on North Korea’s dangerous plutonium-producing graphite reactors in exchange for international assistance. Rather than "giving" them active nuclear material, the U.S. and an international consortium (KEDO) agreed to provide two proliferation-resistant civilian light-water reactors and shipments of heavy fuel oil. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
  • The Catch: The light-water reactors were never actually finished due to political delays and North Korea's later resumption of secret uranium enrichment, which led to the collapse of the deal. [1]

Loral, China, and Missile Technology

• • The Claim: Clinton allowed the sale of advanced guided missile tech to China to enrich Tom Daschle's wife, who was the lobbyist for Loral, advancing China's missile capabilities by 25+ years.
  • The Facts:
    • The Loral Incident: In the mid-1990s, U.S. aerospace companies Loral Space and Communications and Hughes shared telemetry data with China after a Chinese rocket carrying an American-built commercial satellite exploded. An investigation (the Cox Report) concluded this helped China improve its rocket launch and guidance reliability, but it did not advance Chinese guided missile tech by 25+ years, nor was it a direct sale of "advanced guided missile tech".
    • The Daschle Connection: Tom Daschle’s wife, Linda Hall Daschle, is an aviation and transportation policy expert and a former Clinton-appointed Deputy Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration. Public lobbying disclosures and historical records do not link her as a lobbyist for Loral in connection with the China satellite waivers. [1, 2, 3]

Summary

• • Clinton did not give North Korea reactors or nuclear tech; he brokered a containment deal that stalled their plutonium program for nearly a decade. [1, 2]
  • The Loral satellite controversy involved commercial satellite launch analysis rather than a corrupt payoff to enrich Tom Daschle's wife. [1, 2]

 

[Jack Grealish]

Cooperation Project	Specific Details & Timeline
"Peace Pearl" Project (Fighter Avionics Upgrade)	In 1984, the Reagan administration agreed to include the J-8II aircraft on the U.S. Foreign Military Sales list. In 1986, a contract was signed with Grumman Corporation to retrofit 55 sets of advanced avionics and fire control systems for Chinese J-8II fighters. This was the largest-scale cooperation project at the time.
"Black Hawk" Helicopters (S-70)	China acquired 24 civilian-configuration UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters, which were among the first U.S. equipment deliveries to China during the Reagan era.
TOW Anti-Tank Missiles	The U.S. agreed to transfer production technology for the TOW anti-tank missile. This was explicitly included in the military technology cooperation memorandum signed during Senior General Zhang Aiping's visit to the U.S. in 1984.
HAWK Surface-to-Air Missiles	Similarly, the U.S. agreed to transfer production technology for the HAWK air defense missile system, also formalized in the 1984 memorandum.
MK46-2 Anti-Submarine Torpedoes	China purchased four MK46-2 lightweight anti-submarine torpedoes, and relevant personnel were sent to the U.S. to receive operational training.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

What is interesting is that you guys believe Trump when it comes to Iran being this massive threat, when the exact same rhetoric or worse was used for years about N.Korea as to why they could never be allowed to get a nuke and then they do get them and now no one cares and Trump praises them.

Iran is a regional destabilizing force within the Middle East. Iran supports global Islamic terrorism. That they want nuclear weapons is just an added threat. The last time we did nothing about government sponsored terrorism in the Middle East we ended up eventually having it reach the 9/11 attack.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Cooperation Project	Specific Details & Timeline
"Peace Pearl" Project (Fighter Avionics Upgrade)	In 1984, the Reagan administration agreed to include the J-8II aircraft on the U.S. Foreign Military Sales list. In 1986, a contract was signed with Grumman Corporation to retrofit 55 sets of advanced avionics and fire control systems for Chinese J-8II fighters. This was the largest-scale cooperation project at the time.
"Black Hawk" Helicopters (S-70)	China acquired 24 civilian-configuration UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters, which were among the first U.S. equipment deliveries to China during the Reagan era.
TOW Anti-Tank Missiles	The U.S. agreed to transfer production technology for the TOW anti-tank missile. This was explicitly included in the military technology cooperation memorandum signed during Senior General Zhang Aiping's visit to the U.S. in 1984.
HAWK Surface-to-Air Missiles	Similarly, the U.S. agreed to transfer production technology for the HAWK air defense missile system, also formalized in the 1984 memorandum.
MK46-2 Anti-Submarine Torpedoes	China purchased four MK46-2 lightweight anti-submarine torpedoes, and relevant personnel were sent to the U.S. to receive operational training.

What's your point?

 

[QP!]

Iran is a regional destabilizing force within the Middle East. Iran supports global Islamic terrorism. That they want nuclear weapons is just an added threat. The last time we did nothing about government sponsored terrorism in the Middle East we ended up eventually having it reach the 9/11 attack.

And N.Korea was pariah nation who would nuke the US homeland if allowed to get a nuke.

explain how "targeting the US with a nuke" is any less concerning when you are rogue nihilistic nation, as N.Korea was generally described as?


-----

Long before North Korea conducted its first nuclear test in October 2006, Donald Trump publicly warned about the danger of Pyongyang acquiring atomic weapons, stating in 1999 that North Korea would soon target the U.S. He also made severe, critical statements about the threat they posed after they obtained nuclear capabilities. [1, 2, 3]

 

[T. A. Gardner]

And N.Korea was pariah nation who would nuke the US homeland if allowed to get a nuke.

N. Korea has nukes, lots of them. They have a ballistic missile that can reach the US. They haven't nuked the US, so your claim is invalid

explain how "targeting the US with a nuke" is any less concerning when you are rogue nihilistic nation, as N.Korea was generally described as?

The USSR (Now Russia), China, presumably N. Korea, all target the US with nukes. They haven't fired them for fear of retaliation. So...

 

[Lionfish]

.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Hmmm which incredibly weak leader was POTUS when N.Korea ignored their threats and bluster and took their 'testing program' nuclear program fully operational while flexing to the US that they also just built ICBM that could reach the US? Who ever could it be who was in charge???

While Kim Jong Un already possessed nuclear bombs, 2017 was the year North Korea proved it could miniaterize warheads and deliver them to the American mainland, prompting the infamous "fire and fury" rhetorical standoff: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

• First True Hydrogen Bomb (September 2017): North Korea conducted its sixth and most powerful nuclear test to date—a thermonuclear device estimated to be up to 10 times more powerful than their previous bombs. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
• ICBM Capability (November 2017): Kim Jong Un successfully test-fired the Hwasong-15 Intercontinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM), demonstrating a flight trajectory capable of reaching anywhere in the continental United States. [1]
• Completion Declaration: Following these 2017 breakthroughs, Kim Jong Un officially declared North Korea’s nuclear deterrent "complete." [1]

Following this intense period of rapid development, Trump and Kim pivoted to direct diplomacy, resulting in historic face-to-face summits in Singapore (2018) and Hanoi (2019)...

QPeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee,

Ever heard of Vietnam?

 

[QP!]

N. Korea has nukes, lots of them. They have a ballistic missile that can reach the US. They haven't nuked the US, so your claim is invalid


The USSR (Now Russia), China, presumably N. Korea, all target the US with nukes. They haven't fired them for fear of retaliation. So...

You say that because you are stupid and miss the point.

The point you missed is that you are making the neocon argument 'but this time is different '.

Before nukes = N.Korea grave threat we must threaten with war to stop them because this time is different and the threat is real.

Before invading Iraq = grave threat of WMD and we must invade as this time is different and Iraq must be stopped.

Now it iran who must be stopped as this time is different and Terry will explain why.

Meanwhile after the fact when it gets shown to be bullshit, Terry and neocons are first to defend N.Korea now having the nukes because somehow it's different now and OK.

And if N.Korea was still just pursuing them the threats would continue as ' this time is different '.

 

[Sailor]

HaHa, you had to backtrack and look up the answer

So you were completely wrong when you claimed North Korea developed the nuclear bomb under Obama.

​

No. Just, as usual, giving you facts you never know. And if you bothered to read what I wrote, I said specifically that those nuclear warheads and ballistic missiles were a direct result of the inability of the Obama administration to deal with shit. Which is 100% correct. In addition there is a big difference between an underground nuclear bomb test and a nuclear warhead. Not that I would expect you to know anything about that. I am certain you can correct me on your gender pronouns though. And that is it. Dunce. And that goes for the other three frauds that actually thanked you for being stupid.

 

[QP!]

No. Just, as usual, giving you facts you never know. And if you bothered to read what I wrote, I said specifically that those nuclear warheads and ballistic missiles were a direct result of the inability of the Obama administration to deal with shit. Which is 100% correct....

MAGA morons don't think for themselves...

And when they do think for themselves they end up where Sailor is, saying idiotic things like :

- GWB JR escapes ALL BLAME for N.Korea completing and detonating a nuke on his watch because the program was BEGAN BEFORE HE WAS IN OFFICE.

- Obama and Hilary though GET BLAME for N.Korea detonating a much bigger bomb and ICBM on Trump's watch , as they did not do enough on their watch to stop it and we are not to consider that it BEGAN BEFORE THEY WERE IN OFFICE.

- Trump gets NO BLAME for the N.Korea ones detonated on his watch as that program was BEGAN BEFORE HE WAS IN OFFICE.

Sailor says this thinking it is smart and will pass while not realizing only idiotic cult members with TDS accept such idiocy.

 

[Sailor]

And when they do think for themselves they end up where Sailor is, saying idiotic things like :

- GWB JR escapes ALL BLAME for N.Korea completing and detonating a nuke on his watch because the program was BEGAN BEFORE HE WAS IN OFFICE.

- Obama and Hilary though GET BLAME for N.Korea detonating a much bigger bomb and ICBM on Trump's watch , as they did not do enough on their watch to stop it and we are not to consider that it BEGAN BEFORE THEY WERE IN OFFICE.

- Trump gets NO BLAME for the N.Korea ones detonated on his watch as that program was BEGAN BEFORE HE WAS IN OFFICE.

Sailor says this thinking it is smart and will pass while not realizing only idiotic cult members with TDS accept such idiocy.

I can see QP your reading and comprehension skills match all other lefties on this board. Non existent.

 

[QP!]

I can see QP your reading and comprehension skills match all other lefties on this board. Non existent.

And yet you cannot refute a word of it. The only ones you have blamed for the N.Korea nukes and ICBM's are Obama and Hilary.

despite the FACT they built and fired on Bush Jr and Trumps watch and Trump doing his best to normalize Kim and N.Korea as they push their ballistic missile project even further, AGAIN, under his watch...

North Korea fires barrage of missiles toward the sea after dismissing overture from Trump​

... you only blame Obama/Hilary while saying you cannot blame Bush and Trump as these programs preceded their watches.

I am sure the next Dem Potus will quickly get blame from you too and you won't give your logic of 'these programs started before their watch' a second of consideration when you do.