The Democrats witness dilemma

domer76 said:
I misused the term. It was extortion and abuse of power. Toss in obstruction of Congress. The Bidens and their testimony are irrelevant. You're desperately grasping at straws.
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IF Trump was extorting Zelensky and if Hunter Biden is dirty, it’s a pox on both houses, and that adds up to acquittal.

AND it opens up a whole ‘nother can of worms on what was going on in Ukraine under Obama.

Senate Democrats are taking a risk if they vote for witnesses.
 
Darth Omar said:
In a ‘fair’ trial the defense gets to call their own witnesses lol.

You want a fair trial, right? If Hunter turns out Ukraine-dirty, poof. It doesn’t matter what Bolton says, Trump was justified in withholding the aid—*assuming* he did. As president he was justified anyway, but you get the idea.
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Not how it works. The prosecutor calls his witnesses as well as the defendant. However, the defendant usually has witnesses that pertain to his case. The rightys want to call the Bidens. They have zero to do with the case. If the Reds want Biden, who is running against Trump, it would be fair to call Trump too. Trump did this to get a political advantage over Joe. Calling just him might do that. In the interest of fair play, Trump would have to testify too.
you are not interested in fair play at all.
 
Darth Omar said:
IF Trump was extorting Zelensky and if Hunter Biden is dirty, it’s a pox on both houses, and that adds up to acquittal.

AND it opens up a whole ‘nother can of worms on what was going on in Ukraine under Obama.

Senate Democrats are taking a risk if they vote for witnesses.
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No, if Trump was extorting, it is just a guilty case and he loses. Parnas just said Joe was acting to get rid of a corrupt prosecutor. That is what Joe and everyone else said, except the conspiracy nuts.
 
Nordberg said:
Not how it works. The prosecutor calls his witnesses as well as the defendant. However, the defendant usually has witnesses that pertain to his case. The rightys want to call the Bidens. They have zero to do with the case. If the Reds want Biden, who is running against Trump, it would be fair to call Trump too. Trump did this to get a political advantage over Joe. Calling just him might do that. In the interest of fair play, Trump would have to testify too.
you are not interested in fair play at all.
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Well, it’s the Senate’s turn to decide what is fair lol.

Just for giggles, should Trump be allowed to call any witnesses to his defense?
 
Nordberg said:
No, if Trump was extorting, it is just a guilty case and he loses. Parnas just said Joe was acting to get rid of a corrupt prosecutor. That is what Joe and everyone else said, except the conspiracy nuts.
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Is Zelensky a conspiracy nut?

Is he facing legal troubles like Parnas is—and liable to say *anything* to alleviate them?
 
Darth Omar said:
At any rate, that means the defense gets to call Hunter Biden, and others, since Democrats insist on the trial being ‘fair’. Do Democrats risk playing ‘dog catches car’ by putting Hunter Biden under oath? What confidence do they have that Hunter is clean besides reassuring themselves, back and forth, that Hunter is clean? The fact is, Hunter Biden is a Black Box—no one knows what’s inside it until it’s opened. And we all know his past is ‘checkered’, to be diplomatic about it.
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How is Hunter Biden relevant to anything regardless of how dirty he might be?
 
floridafan said:
Do you know what the Impound Control Act is? If you don't ask your handlers to look it up for you.
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Do you know what branch of government sets the foreign policy agenda and also is charged with executing the laws (such as investigating someone for corruption)?
 
christiefan915 said:
That's not what the GAO just said.
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Days, before the trial lol.

Timely, don’t you think? And wouldn’t that be something that would be run through the court system under *normal* circumstances? Executive vs legislative authority and all that REALLY BORING STUFF that 99% of Americans don’t pay attention to?
 
Darth Omar said:
Days, before the trial lol.

Timely, don’t you think? And wouldn’t that be something that would be run through the court system under *normal* circumstances? Executive vs legislative authority and all that REALLY BORING STUFF that 99% of Americans don’t pay attention to?
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People in govt. were talking about this months ago. Also we talked about it then on JPP so it's not like a bomb was dropped. The GAO just put some muscle behind it.
 
Darth Omar said:
Trump asked for an investigation of him.

It doesn’t matter if it turns out one was warranted??
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That is a big stretch. If Hunter Biden did something illegal that has little to do with the bigger issue of corruption in the Ukraine which was supposedly his concern. There is big corruption in several other countries we provide aid to he did not call them asking for investigations or withholding aid.

Since Zelensky was elected on an anti-corruption platform it seems Trump would not need to tell him to investigate corruption. The former prosecutor already investigated Biden (and ended it) so Zelensky had to already know about the problem. I think Trump supporters want to believe him and don't want him removed so they defend him by repeating Republican explanations.
 
Flash said:
That is a big stretch. If Hunter Biden did something illegal that has little to do with the bigger issue of corruption in the Ukraine which was supposedly his concern. There is big corruption in several other countries we provide aid to he did not call them asking for investigations or withholding aid.

Since Zelensky was elected on an anti-corruption platform it seems Trump would not need to tell him to investigate corruption. The former prosecutor already investigated Biden (and ended it) so Zelensky had to already know about the problem. I think Trump supporters want to believe him and don't want him removed so they defend him by repeating Republican explanations.
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Trump asked that Hunter Biden be investigated *specifically*.

Not Elizabeth Warren or Bernie. And if ‘doesn’t matter’ if Trump was right in asking for it? I don’t follow that at all.
 
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