The Democrats witness dilemma

PostmodernProphet said:
no, there is a third option.....we can ignore the bullshit you pretend is fact and send you home to lick your wounds that haven't healed since 2016............when are you fucks going to realize that no sane person in this country believes the shit you make up......
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What did I make up? NAME IT!

We'll see who is making shit up!
 
Bigdog said:
Liar. There was a Pentagon investigation into Ukraine gov't corruption before the 2nd javelin package was approved. Then the gov't changed.
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Cite. I haven't seen anything like that.

"The Trump administration first approved the sale of Javelins to Ukraine in December 2017. The sale was competed in March 2018, when the State Department announced it would sell Ukraine 210 Javelin anti-tank missiles and 37 launchers worth $47 million. The State Department approved an additional sale of the anti-tank missiles to Ukraine in October."
 
christiefan915 said:
Cite. I haven't seen anything like that.

"The Trump administration first approved the sale of Javelins to Ukraine in December 2017. The sale was competed in March 2018, when the State Department announced it would sell Ukraine 210 Javelin anti-tank missiles and 37 launchers worth $47 million. The State Department approved an additional sale of the anti-tank missiles to Ukraine in October."
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https://www.foreign.senate.gov/www.foreign.senate.gov › press › ranking › release › fact-sheet-dod-c...
Fact Sheet: DOD Certified that Ukraine Met Corruption ...
Oct 23, 2019 - TRUMP-UKRAINE SCANDAL ... But DOD Had Twice Certified Ukraine's Progress on Corruption: Long before ... must certify that certain anti-corruption reforms have taken place. ... 423 Dirksen Senate Office Building · Washington, DC 20510-6225 · (202) 224-4651 · Web_Inquiry@foreign.senate.gov.
 
Bigdog said:
Show me evidence that Trump "demanded" a Biden investigation, or admit you lied. :dunno:

And Poroshenko was apparently party to the Hunter cover up.

"On April 18, 2018, an alleged recording of part of a conversation between President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko and fugitive Ukrainian lawmaker Oleksandr Onyshchenko was released by Onyshchenko which implicated Zlochevsky in graft.[3][23][24]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mykola_Zlochevsky
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I'm saying "demanded" because trump never released a complete and unredacted version of the July phone call showing that he just wanted a favor. It was edited and abridged; if it was "perfect" trump had nothing to hide. My position is that there was stronger quid pro quo language in the report than what's been reported.

And re: the second comment, what's your point? The call took place a year before Biden started to campaign yet no one called for an investigation and trump didn't withhold money over it, even though, according to your article, "Onyshchenko claimed that there would be no problems with the United States because Hunter Biden, son of former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, and former Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski were on the board of Zlochevsky’s Burisma firm."
 
Bigdog said:
https://www.foreign.senate.gov/www.foreign.senate.gov › press › ranking › release › fact-sheet-dod-c...
Fact Sheet: DOD Certified that Ukraine Met Corruption ...
Oct 23, 2019 - TRUMP-UKRAINE SCANDAL ... But DOD Had Twice Certified Ukraine's Progress on Corruption: Long before ... must certify that certain anti-corruption reforms have taken place. ... 423 Dirksen Senate Office Building · Washington, DC 20510-6225 · (202) 224-4651 · Web_Inquiry@foreign.senate.gov.
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First link:
404 Error Page


[SIZE=+1]Requested Page Not Found (404).


[/SIZE]​
Second link: says you need an application to open so I clicked on gmail and it brought me to a link on how to contact the Committee on Foreign Relations.

None of this was any help.
 
christiefan915 said:
I'm saying "demanded" because trump never released a complete and unredacted version of the July phone call showing that he just wanted a favor. It was edited and abridged; if it was "perfect" trump had nothing to hide. My position is that there was stronger quid pro quo language in the report than what's been reported.

And re: the second comment, what's your point? The call took place a year before Biden started to campaign yet no one called for an investigation and trump didn't withhold money over it, even though, according to your article, "Onyshchenko claimed that there would be no problems with the United States because Hunter Biden, son of former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, and former Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski were on the board of Zlochevsky’s Burisma firm."
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How do you know it wasn't a "complete and unredacted version" AND how do you know it was it was "edited and abridged"??

I would like to see something other then opinions. :good4u:
 
Bigdog said:
https://www.foreign.senate.gov/pres...tified-that-ukraine-met-corruption-benchmarks

All you had to do was google the story title. :palm:
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How does this help your argument? The last sentence is what I've been saying all along.

"Long before President Trump ordered a halt to security assistance, the Secretary of Defense—in coordination with Secretary Pompeo—twice certified that Ukraine had made sufficient reforms to decrease corruption and increase accountability, and that the country could ensure accountability for U.S. provided military equipment. Further, after OMB held the assistance to Ukraine in July, the Department of Defense (DOD) conducted an additional analysis and concluded that the assistance was effective and should be resumed. [Amb. Taylor testimony, 10/22/19].

Finally, before the July 2019 hold, the Trump administration had approved sending foreign assistance to Ukraine nearly 50 separate times without ever holding it because of concerns that it would be diverted due to corruption."
 
christiefan915 said:
How does this help your argument? The last sentence is what I've been saying all along.

"Long before President Trump ordered a halt to security assistance, the Secretary of Defense—in coordination with Secretary Pompeo—twice certified that Ukraine had made sufficient reforms to decrease corruption and increase accountability, and that the country could ensure accountability for U.S. provided military equipment. Further, after OMB held the assistance to Ukraine in July, the Department of Defense (DOD) conducted an additional analysis and concluded that the assistance was effective and should be resumed. [Amb. Taylor testimony, 10/22/19].

Finally, before the July 2019 hold, the Trump administration had approved sending foreign assistance to Ukraine nearly 50 separate times without ever holding it because of concerns that it would be diverted due to corruption."
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You're the one that claimed there was no prior investigation into Ukraine corruption. :palm:

And ... "the Department of Defense (DOD) conducted an additional analysis and concluded that the assistance was effective and should be resumed. [Amb. Taylor testimony, 10/22/19"
 
Bigdog said:
You're the one that claimed there was no prior investigation into Ukraine corruption. :palm:

And ... "the Department of Defense (DOD) conducted an additional analysis and concluded that the assistance was effective and should be resumed. [Amb. Taylor testimony, 10/22/19"
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I don't see anything about Pentagon "investigation" in your link, unless you meant analysis. They are two different things. What it says is "To spend more than half of the authorized funds, DOD, in coordination with the State Department, must certify that certain anti-corruption reforms have taken place."
 
christiefan915 said:
I don't see anything about Pentagon "investigation" in your link, unless you meant analysis. They are two different things. What it says is "To spend more than half of the authorized funds, DOD, in coordination with the State Department, must certify that certain anti-corruption reforms have taken place."
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Anti- corruption :palm:

"The Pentagon is the headquarters building of the United States Department of Defense. As a symbol of the U.S. military, the phrase The Pentagon is also often used as a metonym for the Department of Defense and its leadership" :palm:

Freakin' Nazi :palm:
 
Bigdog said:
Anti- corruption :palm:

"The Pentagon is the headquarters building of the United States Department of Defense. As a symbol of the U.S. military, the phrase The Pentagon is also often used as a metonym for the Department of Defense and its leadership" :palm:

Freakin' Nazi :palm:
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You think you can make your points with a little more clarity, rather than writing incoherently and expecting people to translate?

Freakin' numbskull. :laugh:
 
Frank Apisa said:
Ummmm...what about the oaths to do "impartial justice?"

"Justice"...whether impartial or not...requires considering ALL the evidence that can be obtained...not just the evidence they want.

The Republicans constantly complain about "hearsay" evidence. Well, in effect, all the evidence they get from the House is "hearsay." They should get some "first hand" evidence too. And that would require witnesses.

Look...they are going to acquit Trump. ANY Republican voting to convict Trump will not only be committing political suicide, he/she will be insuring that the posh jobs that come with retirement will no longer be available. And putting themselves into that kind of position is just in not in the political DNA.

Trump

So...hear from the witnesses...and then acquit.

Most people out here in the public know where things are on this issue. Listening to more witnesses and then acquitting Trump is not going to make them look any less craven.
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Frank, Senators are sworn to be impartial *jurists*.

Jurists of what? Whatever the House sends them. The House has sent the articles and they insured the whole country that ‘it was all that was needed’ to remove Trump.

Well, let’s get on with it.

And I’ll thank you in advance for not insulting my intelligence with the notion that Pelosi/Schiff/Nadler and a whole bunch of other Democrats are, in any way, ‘impartial’.

Thanks.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
so you want them in proper order?.......collusion, bribery, extortion, abuse of authority.......I will spot you contempt of Congress......everyone's in contempt of Congress......
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This impeachment is unique in the sense there has never been more shifting of goal posts.

Surely, Trump must be guilty of SOMETHING lol.
 
domer76 said:
In today's legal system, it's not how much justice there is, it's how much justice you can afford.
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Not in a case like this. Even the worst defense attorney knows evidence of prior convictions cannot be entered as evidence during the trial. A judge would not allow this because he knows it can be overturned.

The conviction rate is the same for private attorneys and court appointed attorneys.
 
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