The Deplorable Blue Collars, truckers, farmers, smelly Walmarters & bitter clingers

WitoldPilecki said:
No, it's the same cr@p over & over again.
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How can you say that we would be facing the same situation with Clinton that we are facing with Trump?

I don't understand. Clinton was SoS during an actual global pandemic...she was a part of Obama's Administration that managed the country through 4 outbreaks. It's insane to think we would be in this same situation with a different President. I don't see it, and frankly it sounds like a cop-out to me; that you know it was a mistake, but don't want to admit it and have tons of excuses ready.
 
LV426 said:
How can you say that we would be facing the same situation with Clinton that we are facing with Trump?

I don't understand. Clinton was SoS during an actual global pandemic...she was a part of Obama's Administration that managed the country through 4 outbreaks. It's insane to think we would be in this same situation with a different President. I don't see it, and frankly it sounds like a cop-out to me; that you know it was a mistake, but don't want to admit it and have tons of excuses ready.
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I think Clinton would have been better in handling this, and better at not stirring up division & hatred towards one another.

Still, Clinton probably would be strikingly similar in many ways.

Also, Clinton probably would have let in a lot more Islamic refugees.
 
Flash said:
Not the side I find myself own. As I have repeated often, BOTH SIDES are fiscally irresponsible.




My one vote for 3rd party would have given Hillary my state's electoral voters? Your math is terrible.

Even if I voted for Hillary and she won my state those 38 electoral votes would still not have given her the needed 270.

So, no. My vote for Johnson was not a vote for Trump any more than it was a vote for Hillary.

You were an honest man to admit you were wrong about some states not automatically cancelling uncontested primaries and that the stimulus is not a credit toward future taxes.

With a little additional thought, you will soon realize you are wrong about my 3rd party vote claim, that U. S. laws do not allow you to assault or kill Nazis, and that waving a Confederate flag is a protected 1st Amendment right.
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It's kind of funny the obsession some have with those that have voted third party in Presidential elections. I've heard it called childish. I've heard it called a cop out. I've been told from those on the right that by voting for Johnson I voted for Hillary. On the left I've been told I voted for Trump.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but fvck'em. I voted for who was closest to what I believe.

You know what else is funny is how often we hear prior to an election "everyone vote", "please vote", "please vote everyone..." Of course what they really mean is vote for the candidate they support.
 
WitoldPilecki said:
I think Clinton would have been better in handling this, and better at not stirring up division & hatred towards one another.

Still, Clinton probably would be strikingly similar in many ways.

Also, Clinton probably would have let in a lot more Islamic refugees.
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And she likely would have started a war with Iran.
But as far as handling the pandemic and the economy go, there's no question she would have done better.
 
WitoldPilecki said:
I think Clinton would have been better in handling this, and better at not stirring up division & hatred towards one another.
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OK, so we agree. So the choice to not vote for Clinton in 2016 was a bad one, wasn't it? Because had Clinton won, she would have done a better job.


Still, Clinton probably would be strikingly similar in many ways.
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Well, we already know how Clinton would have responded because she was Secretary of State during H1N1.

What would be "strikingly similar"?


Also, Clinton probably would have let in a lot more Islamic refugees.
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So? We destroyed their countries. Letting them come here is the least we can do. Also, by taking in refugees, we attain the moral high ground.
 
LV426 said:
OK, so we agree. So the choice to not vote for Clinton in 2016 was a bad one, wasn't it? Because had Clinton won, she would have done a better job.




Well, we already know how Clinton would have responded because she was Secretary of State during H1N1.

What would be "strikingly similar"?




So? We destroyed their countries. Letting them come here is the least we can do. Also, by taking in refugees, we attain the moral high ground.
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Because it's stupid, destroying someones country & to the point they might hate you but move to your country?

Why don't you let your enemies into your house?
 
WitoldPilecki said:
Because it's stupid, destroying someones country & to the point they might hate you but move to your country?
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How else do we make amends for our past misdeeds? By showing grace and compassion, and being responsible for the people whose lives we ruined.

I think American foreign policy should be entirely refugee-focused, and all military operations should be converted to humanitarian ones instead.

Rather than drop bombs in the middle east, we tell anyone there that they are welcome to come here and settle if they've been displaced because of climate or conflict.

Continuing to bomb them isn't going to make them like us.


Why don't you let your enemies into your house?
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Refugees are not our enemies, and making them our enemies repeats the same mistakes of the 1930's and pre-WWII, where we sent boatloads of Jews back to Europe to be gassed, where we turned a blind eye to Japanese incursion and occupation of China and Korea, and where we stood by as Mussolini rolled across North Africa as Hitler rolled across Central and Eastern Europe.

Never again.
 
I'd agree there's more obligation for the USA to take refugees than Germany.
Due to the Iraq war.

Exactly, why a lot of European Nationalists tend to see Republican Americans as a joke too.
 
LV426 said:
How else do we make amends for our past misdeeds? By showing grace and compassion, and being responsible for the people whose lives we ruined.

I think American foreign policy should be entirely refugee-focused, and all military operations should be converted to humanitarian ones instead.

Rather than drop bombs in the middle east, we tell anyone there that they are welcome to come here and settle if they've been displaced because of climate or conflict.

Continuing to bomb them isn't going to make them like us.




Refugees are not our enemies, and making them our enemies repeats the same mistakes of the 1930's and pre-WWII, where we sent boatloads of Jews back to Europe to be gassed, where we turned a blind eye to Japanese incursion and occupation of China and Korea, and where we stood by as Mussolini rolled across North Africa as Hitler rolled across Central and Eastern Europe.

Never again.
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Look I try to balance out between logic & morals the best I can.

If something is 500,000,000 times more stupid than it is moral.
I'm not supporting it.

This idea that ruining your culture is a moral fabric, doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense.

It's more shortsightedness, from Individualist Western Europeans.

They see immediate moral gratification, for immoral decay in the long term.

It's illogical, plain & simple.


PS.
Mussolini was no Hitler.

He wasn't any worse in war mongering than well just about every USA President since, except maybe Carter or Eisenhowever.
 
LV426 said:
How else do we make amends for our past misdeeds? By showing grace and compassion, and being responsible for the people whose lives we ruined.

I think American foreign policy should be entirely refugee-focused, and all military operations should be converted to humanitarian ones instead.

Rather than drop bombs in the middle east, we tell anyone there that they are welcome to come here and settle if they've been displaced because of climate or conflict.

Continuing to bomb them isn't going to make them like us.




Refugees are not our enemies, and making them our enemies repeats the same mistakes of the 1930's and pre-WWII, where we sent boatloads of Jews back to Europe to be gassed, where we turned a blind eye to Japanese incursion and occupation of China and Korea, and where we stood by as Mussolini rolled across North Africa as Hitler rolled across Central and Eastern Europe.

Never again.
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Look I asked if you let enemies in your house?

Would you let your high school bully into your home?

Yes
or
No?
 
WitoldPilecki said:
This idea that ruining your culture is a moral fabric, doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense.
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Since America is a country of immigrants and refugees, it is our moral duty to accept any and all.

It's how and why my ancestors came to America circa 1900, fleeing the pogroms of Eastern Europe.


He wasn't any worse in war mongering than well just about every USA President since, except maybe Carter or Eisenhowever.
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Mussolini was a fascist.
 
LV426 said:
How else do we make amends for our past misdeeds? By showing grace and compassion, and being responsible for the people whose lives we ruined.

I think American foreign policy should be entirely refugee-focused, and all military operations should be converted to humanitarian ones instead.

Rather than drop bombs in the middle east, we tell anyone there that they are welcome to come here and settle if they've been displaced because of climate or conflict.

Continuing to bomb them isn't going to make them like us.




Refugees are not our enemies, and making them our enemies repeats the same mistakes of the 1930's and pre-WWII, where we sent boatloads of Jews back to Europe to be gassed, where we turned a blind eye to Japanese incursion and occupation of China and Korea, and where we stood by as Mussolini rolled across North Africa as Hitler rolled across Central and Eastern Europe.

Never again.
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Because Western European Protestants tend to be jerks.

They doubted what Poles told them about the Holocaust.

Polish Catholic Jan Karski warned FDR & FDR just made jokes about "are Poland's Horses okay?"

Polish Catholic Witold Pilecki did one step further, he was captured & imprisoned to Auschwitz, escaped & gathered information about the Holocaust which he documented in Witold's Report.

But, this too was taken lightly by the Western allies.
 
LV426 said:
The premise that refugees are our enemies is a fallacy to start.




Who is the bully in this scenario? The refugees, or the country that caused them to be refugees?
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Bullies also don't let their victims, and friends all come in their house, either.

So, they can seek revenge.
 
LV426 said:
Since America is a country of immigrants and refugees, it is our moral duty to accept any and all.

It's how and why my ancestors came to America circa 1900, fleeing the pogroms of Eastern Europe.




Mussolini was a fascist.
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Because,
If I had a time machine.

I would for the sake of my Poland go to 1930's Poland.

Tell them to make alliances with Mussolini, Horthy, Franco, and the rest of Catholic Europe before Hitler could.

It may or may not have worked.

But, these dictators weren't Hitler's, they have mass murder tolls more like W. Bush than like Hitler.
 
LV426 said:
How else do we make amends for our past misdeeds? By showing grace and compassion, and being responsible for the people whose lives we ruined.

I think American foreign policy should be entirely refugee-focused, and all military operations should be converted to humanitarian ones instead.

Rather than drop bombs in the middle east, we tell anyone there that they are welcome to come here and settle if they've been displaced because of climate or conflict.

Continuing to bomb them isn't going to make them like us.




Refugees are not our enemies, and making them our enemies repeats the same mistakes of the 1930's and pre-WWII, where we sent boatloads of Jews back to Europe to be gassed, where we turned a blind eye to Japanese incursion and occupation of China and Korea, and where we stood by as Mussolini rolled across North Africa as Hitler rolled across Central and Eastern Europe.

Never again.
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Why did Israel not take in it's fair share of Muslim refugees from Syria & Iraq?
 
WitoldPilecki said:
Because Western European Protestants tend to be jerks.
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Maybe then we shouldn't elect any to positions of power anymore, then?


But, this too was taken lightly by the Western allies.
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No, it was taken lightly by the "America First" crowd. The people who said letting Jewish refugees in would "destroy the traditional and fundamental values of our nation".

There were plenty of people sounding the alarm. Like Walter Winchell.
 
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