The insanity and stupidity of the undemocratic Electoral College explained

[Into the Night]

States represent land not the people

WRONG. States represent the people of that State.

The people created the constitution that created the State government.
The people ordained that constitution to power.
The people own that constitution. They can change it. The State government does not get to change it.

 

[Into the Night]

You better get used to it- BUT IT IS ALL GOING TO CHANGE!

WE ARE GOING TO MAKE AMERICA A DEMOCRACY AGAIN! MADA! NEED A HAT MOTHERUCKER? LOL!

The United States was never a democracy.

 

[Into the Night]

DO you still squat on the ground to take a shit the way they did in 1786?

Things change dude- and after 234 years- it's about time!

All it takes is legislation and a presidential pen! WE WILL PROVIDE ALL THAT IN 2020!

No. You will not peacefully overthrow the Constitution of the United States.

 

[Into the Night]

Only a Myth my friend!

MYTH: A federal constitutional amendment is necessary for changing the current method of electing the President.

Nope. it is the only way.

The U.S. Constitution gives the states the “exclusive” and “plenary” power to choose the method of awarding their electoral votes.

So long as they are acting in the interests of the people of that State, and not some other State.

The shortcomings of the current system of electing the President stem from state winner-take-all statutes that award all of a state’s electoral votes to the candidate who receives the most popular votes within each separate state.

There are no shortcomings.

The state-by-state winner-take-all method of awarding electoral votes is not in the U.S. Constitution. It was not debated at the Constitutional Convention. It was not discussed in the Federalist Papers.

Yes it is. As you said, each State decides the method of choosing it's electors, so long as the interests of the people of that State are observed.

The winner-take-all rule was used by only three states in the nation’s first presidential election in 1789 (all of which abandoned it by 1800). The Founders were dead for decades before the winner-take-all rule became the predominant method of awarding electoral votes.

Irrelevant.

Maine and Nebraska currently award electoral votes by congressional district—a reminder that the method of awarding electoral votes is a state decision.

Fine.

The winner-take-all rule is used today in 48 of the 50 states because it was enacted as a state statute in those states, under the same provision of the U.S. Constitution (empowering the states to choose the method of awarding their electoral votes) being used to enact the National Popular Vote plan.

No State can vote for another State. The National Popular Vote plan is unconstitutional.

Winner-take-all statutes may be repealed in the same way they were enacted—namely, through each state’s process for enacting and repealing state laws. Therefore, a federal constitutional amendment is not necessary to change the state-by-state winner-take-all method of awarding electoral votes.

A State government may only represent the people of that State. It cannot represent the people of any other State.

The Constitution’s grant of exclusive power to the states to decide how presidential elections are conducted was not a historical accident or mistake, but was intended as a “check and balance” on a sitting President who, in conjunction with a compliant Congress, might manipulate election rules to perpetuate himself in office.

WRONG. The Electoral College system was designed to give each State representation in choosing the President. It is not a 'check and balance'. It is a way to get all States represented.

No matter how many people live in New York, Wyoming still gets a say. Wyoming cannot represent the people of New York, and New York cannot represent the people of Wyoming.

 

[Into the Night]

the last two Repub 'presidents' took the WH after losing the popular vote...……..THAT'S why all the rubes go for it

The President is not elected by popular vote.

 

[Into the Night]

Not if I could convince people like you to appreciate what a true Democracy can do for us as a nation, and what we could do to set the best example of Democracy for the rest of the world.

No way. Democracies are destructive.

What I don't get is the fact that Republicans have lost all faith in Democracy, and are showing little respect for it because they now fear Democracy.

Of course I do. It is destructive.

Let's get back to Democracy pal!

No way. It is destructive. It means the end of the United States.

We may not always get our way individually. Our guy may not always win. But we can rest assured that the one in charge is who the majority of us want as a leader, and we may just have to work in the confines of that.

There are no confines in a democracy...one of the reasons it's unstable.

And we will never ever again have a president that is unpopular from the moment he steps into office and leaving the majority of the country in discontent.

We will never again have a President. We will have a dictator.

 

[Into the Night]

I'll answer that if you can tell me, in you own opinion, "When was America great?"

Can you explain, in your own words, what is meant by "Making America Great AGAIN?

Returning to the principles and limitations laid out in the Constitution of the United States, and for each State to return to the principles and limitations laid out in their various State constitutions.

Such will enable capitalism again, the only economic system capable of creating wealth.

 

[Cancel 2020.2]

No way. Democracies are destructive.

Of course I do. It is destructive.

No way. It is destructive. It means the end of the United States.

There are no confines in a democracy...one of the reasons it's unstable.

We will never again have a President. We will have a dictator.

Please ignore little Adolf. He is brainwashed, mentally deficient. Just ignore the stupid f*ck! Thank you. You'll be much happier by not replying to the intellectually challenged one.

 

[Into the Night]

OK! Is the name United STates a farce then? Are we truly United?

Except for California, which I no longer consider a State, yes.

The Federal Government has no power to tell states how to run their own state and local elections.

WRONG. The Constitution of the United States specifies that each State in the Union must be a republican form of government. Each State must have a constitution. See Article IV $4. That means the elections held in each State must be held in accordance to the constitution of that State. It cannot change except by amending the constitution of that State.

But, if we are truly United, we must be united in the way states vote in FEDERAL ELECTIONS!

We are. See Article II, $2-4.

We can't have states voting differently from state to state in Federal elections making up their own rules as they go along.

True. Each State can only change how it chooses its electors by amending their own State constitution according to the provisions laid out in that constitution.

That is the insanity of the Delegation process! It is undemocratic!

It is not meant to be democratic. The United States is not a democracy, and never has been.

Do we tell states- Your votes do not count? NO!

They obviously do.

Then why do we keep telling individuals that their votes do not count?

Because the people do not vote for President. The State governments do, each according to the provisions laid out in their State constitutions.

Every States votes should count!

It does, according to Article II, $2-4, and Article I.

And every voter's vote should count as well!

Nope. The President is not elected by popular vote.

We can't play party favorites- or set up the way states vote to give a political party an unfair advantage!

The States choose their electors using the authority given to them by the people of that State and using the method defined in that State's constitution.

 

[Into the Night]

Being democratic allows each state to determine how its electoral votes will be chosen just as the Constitution specifies based on the wishes of each state.

Everybody's vote already does count. All of our non-presidential elections are winner-take-all. The person with the most votes wins and the voters of the other party win nothing.

No. The United States is not a democracy. The State governments MUST act according to their own State constitution. That is the ONLY way they can choose the electors for that State.

 

[Into the Night]

No! You are right! It is not a democracy!

My question to you is- and please be clear- DO YOU WANT AMERICA TO BE A FREE DEMOCRACY OR NOT?

NO!

 

[Into the Night]

How can America be a voice for Democracy in the world

It is not meant to be. The United States is not a democracy and never has been. It is a federated republic. We have constitutions in this country.

when we do not even elect our own presidents in a Democratic way?

No way! I abhor democracies. They are unstable and destructive. They dissolve into dictatorships and oligarchies.

While we would like to see free elections in every country but let's take IRAN for example. If IRAN decided to go the American way and allowed their clerics and zealots to become the delegates that actually determines the votes- Would that be a free democratic election? Isn't that what they have now for heaven's sake?

No. Iran is a monarchy.

I hate to have to say it, but that is the way we do it here! That's "3rd world" people! Wake up!!

Go visit the homeless camps in L.A. Be sure to get your typhoid and cholera shots updated first!

That's not democracy!

No. It's not. That's good. We have constitutions. We are a federated republic.

That's not a free election!

It's not meant to be. It is meant to be carried out according to the constitutions.

And we are no better than IRAN is now when it comes to the way we put leaders into office.

Iran doesn't choose leaders. Iran is a monarchy.

That's why IRAN laughs at us,

Who cares?

because they select their leaders no different than in the way we select our leaders today!

WRONG. Iran doesn't select leaders. Iran is a monarchy.

False equivalence fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

OK! Let's say you have 3 children, and you tell them you are planning for next years vacation, and they have a choice, "Do you want to go to Disneyland in Florida, or camping in the Colorado Rocky Mountains?

Two kids immediately say, "Disneyland dad"! One kid say's, "Camping dad"!

As a father, would you then say, "OK, It's decided, we are going camping"! Would that be democratic? Don't think so!

Shouldn't a majority always win? You know it, and I know it! The answer is yes!

And how would your two kids that wanted to go to Disneyland feel? Do you think after by playing and going by the rules and voted, do you think they would be disgruntled and feel like they were treated unfairly! Justifyingly so!

Well, that is how the majority of voters feel when they win the popular vote and are told they lost the election!

False equivalence fallacy. Families are not the government of the United States nor of any State. Compositional error fallacy. Families are not governed the same way in each family. Running a family as a democracy is an invitation to a disaster.

 

[Into the Night]

OK, the Electoral process is a delegation process! So I am not sure why that seems to be hanging you up! Are you playing semantics with me?

And the truth is, our electoral process has never been a democratic process! And that is what is hanging me up! Because our electoral process should be a democratic process!

No. We have constitutions. They should be followed.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

You better get used to it- BUT IT IS ALL GOING TO CHANGE!

WE ARE GOING TO MAKE AMERICA A DEMOCRACY AGAIN! MADA! NEED A HAT MOTHERUCKER? LOL!

 

[USFREEDOM911]

DO you still squat on the ground to take a shit the way they did in 1786?

Things change dude- and after 234 years- it's about time!

All it takes is legislation and a presidential pen! WE WILL PROVIDE ALL THAT IN 2020!

 

[USFREEDOM911]

You are the saddest excuse of a woman here in the forum!

FIrst of all you are a toothless bearded old hag using someone else picture.

And you vote for pussy-grabbers, adulterers, misogynists, and assholes that are taking babies away from their mothers and putting them in prison!

SO shutup you old witch!

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I am going to say this, and I am going to say this right now...


The first time a Republican nominee loses an election after winning the popular vote.................


You hypicrital bastards will be calling for an end to the Delegation process!

It just hasn't happened yet- BUT IT WILL!

 

[Gonzomin]

MSNBC, lol.

To illustrate just how dumb this scheme is, consider the fact that without the electoral college, a handful of counties would decide everything.

So you think dirt should vote.

 

[Gonzomin]

No. We have constitutions. They should be followed.

We have had 27 amendments fixing the constitution, This should be no, 28. get rid of the EC.
If the Dems were winning on it, it would been killed long ago and you would have backed it happening,