Trump wants to drop illegal aliens from US census count

Poor Richard Saunders said:
Wow. You just don't bother to read your links, do you? The five lost seats has NOTHING to do with undocumented persons. It is an estimate based on population trends and where that population will be in 2030 from the data in 2022. It may be accurate and it could be way off since it is based on assumptions that could not come to pass in the next 7 years since this estimate was done. Based on 2025 numbers, it clearly won't happen as predicted because other states aren't growing as fast as expected.

Once again, you failed to read your source which reached the exact same math I did.

A 2020 analysis by the Pew Research Center, based on population projections, estimated that if undocumented immigrants were excluded from the 2020 apportionment count, three states would each lose a congressional seat they were otherwise expected to have.

What the fuck. Texas and Florida will lose seats they would have gained if undocumented aren't counted. New York and Illinois will not.
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It is so established now it is a default position.

@T. A. Gardner will post a source thinking it supports the argument he is pushing while, in fact, it says the exact opposite and supports the argument he is against.

It is either a level of shamelessness to be so wrong, so often and yet not take the time to read and understand his own source...

Or...

A level of stupidly that he just cannot.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
As I've pointed out, you count them--as illegally here / non-citizens. There is nothing to preclude that. They've been counted as the constitution requires.

You then do not use them for apportionment purposes which the constitution doesn't speak to directly. That is, they're counted but their presence gives no benefit to them or the state they are in. They are foreign nationals and not entitled to political representation--since they cannot vote either--or government benefits of any kind.

If they refuse to be counted, then that brings the exact same end here. If they lie on the census form, that's just one more crime to add to their rap sheet.
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You keep ignoring the actual words in the Constitution. Apportionment is based on the count of free persons. The Constitution doesn't allow you to ignore some free persons for apportionment.

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

There is no allowance to subtract non-citizens.


When did the US not count POWs? You made that claim but have presented no evidence. I can think of no war in the last century that was ongoing at the time of the decennial census that would have resulted in POWs being lodged in the US in any numbers.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
nypost.com

Trump administration wants to drop all illegal immigrants from US census

The Trump administration proposed excluding undocumented and temporary immigrants from the US census, counting only citizens and permanent residents.
nypost.com nypost.com

What do you think about that?

admiral-ackbar-its-a-trap-return-of-the-jedi1-300x1681.jpg
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Not even as three fifths of a person?
 
evince said:
Someone else once wanted his “citizens” to carry their papers
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Yes, it happened in Democrat-dominated Palm Beach in 1985.

Nobody spit an a black man's face, though, AFAIK.


www.sun-sentinel.com

IDENTITY CARDS DECISION:PALM BEACH REACTIONS TO FEDERAL RULING MIXED

A federal court ruling killing Palm Beach’s worker identification law left town officials grim Wednesday, but brought joy to others who say it has stemmed the wealthy island’s restrictive powers. “Anything in this country…
www.sun-sentinel.com www.sun-sentinel.com
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I've said at least three times now that TRUMP exempted undocumented workers from round-up by ICE that work in the hospitality sector. He also exempted food processing/packing plant undocumented employees.

Again, why isn't Reichwing focus on rounding up those who illegally employ undocumented workers? If employing them is illegal? If their presence in the U.S. is illegal, why does your #MalignantMessiah exempt certain workers but not others? Why are you trying to deflect from these important questions with a totally non-related criminal case?

It's too bad that reading comprehension escapes you. You're probably way too old to fix that. lol
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And, I've shown you numerous cases where they've been arrested and deported. Restaurants are part of the "hospitality industry."
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
You keep ignoring the actual words in the Constitution. Apportionment is based on the count of free persons. The Constitution doesn't allow you to ignore some free persons for apportionment.

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

There is no allowance to subtract non-citizens.


When did the US not count POWs? You made that claim but have presented no evidence. I can think of no war in the last century that was ongoing at the time of the decennial census that would have resulted in POWs being lodged in the US in any numbers.
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Incarcerated persons are counted. They aren't "free."

That aside, there is nothing in the constitution about "free" persons with regard to the census.

govfacts.org

What Excluding Undocumented Immigrants From the Census Would Change

The U.S. Constitution requires a national census every ten years for one fundamental purpose: to determine how political power is allocated among states in the House of Representatives. This process, called apportionment, is at the core of American representative democracy. Yet for decades, a...
govfacts.org govfacts.org

The argument is not whether illegals should be counted, but rather whether they should be included for apportionment of congressional seats and funding. I say they shouldn't. They are criminals and foreign citizens. They are not entitled to representation in Congress nor are they entitled to government (taxpayer) funding of anything.

There is hint of that in the 14th Amendment in that it excludes criminals from voting.
 
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T. A. Gardner said:
Incarcerated persons are counted. They aren't "free."
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Under the definition used in the Constitution, they are. Those that weren't free were counted as 3/5 of a person. This was a very famous compromise for the slave states. Indentured servants were counted as free. Slaves were counted as not free.
 
Diogenes said:
Yes, it happened in Democrat-dominated Palm Beach in 1985.

Nobody spit an a black man's face, though, AFAIK.


www.sun-sentinel.com

IDENTITY CARDS DECISION:PALM BEACH REACTIONS TO FEDERAL RULING MIXED

A federal court ruling killing Palm Beach’s worker identification law left town officials grim Wednesday, but brought joy to others who say it has stemmed the wealthy island’s restrictive powers. “Anything in this country…
www.sun-sentinel.com www.sun-sentinel.com
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You don’t seem to know much history

Or science

Or math

Or the constitution
 
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