Elites are thriving under Trump

Althea said:
Meanwhile, the gap grows because Wall St. is seeing the largest scale share buyback by corporations in history. As if we were surprised by that.
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1) stock buybacks don't indicate a growth in the wealth gap.

2) If everyone increases there wealth at the exact same rate, the wealth gap will have to increase.

The vast majority of businesses are private (about 98%+). There are no stock buybacks in those companies. The publicly traded companies comprise about a third of non farm payroll.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Superfreak,



The fools are the ones who think we can collect less revenue and avoid sending the debt into orbit.
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Reductions in revenue must be met with spending cuts, otherwise you are correct. But there is a balance. Increasing or decreasing tax rates... either can be good for revenue or bad. Too high and you risk stifling growth. That can lead to higher unemployment rates (and thus higher spending on welfare, unemployment etc...). Which in turn also tends to reduce revenue. Too low and you can't cut spending enough to compensate. Thus leading to a reduction in spending in needed areas.

That said, I think we are a long ways away from not being able to find areas to cut spending. DoD has way too much spending. Start there.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Superfreak,



That is true. But there is a huge problem with that truth. It is the basic problem with capitalism. Capitalism has absolutely no obligation to provide a job or livable wages to everyone. Or anyone.

We have to use socialism to correct this glaring problem which exists in capitalism.

We impose a minimum age to ensure that a 40 hour worker can support himself. It was once meant to support his small family, but times have changed. And now, it hardly supports one person. Trying to live on $7.25 per hour is ridiculous these days. It is our socialism which is too weak to prevent capitalism from creating extreme wealth inequality.

Capitalism naturally creates growing wealth inequality. That is not sustainable in the long run. So we have to do something. That something is socialism.

We mix socialism with our capitalism to make it tolerable for the masses.

Because the min wage is too low, we have many government assistance programs to make up for that.

People actually work more than 40 hours per week at numerous jobs and still qualify for government assistance programs.

That shows a glaring failure of capitalism to provide meaningful jobs for all who want them.
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Wrong. The minimum wage was originally designed to protect the worker, but it has morphed in time. Minimum wage is designed for the unskilled worker to be trained and gain work experience. The minimum wage jobs are NOT careers or jobs that are designed to support the lifestyle of an individual.

Raising the minimum wage arbitrarily will simple cause a ripple effect in the wage scale. That raises the cost of living and thus negates the very arbitrary raise in minimum wage by reducing the purchasing power of the dollar. Pretending that every job out there is supposed to support a person in terms of rent/mortgage, utilities etc... is absurd.

Minimum wage jobs are designed for (1) The young, to gain experience, typically they are still living with mom and dad (2) Supplemental income for those needing/wanting to work a second job (3) Part time workers (4) Service industry workers that also get tips.
 
cawacko said:
i'm sorry Frank if you aren't familiar with how markets work. How do any of us have jobs today with all the technological change that's occurred over the past four decades?
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What has happened in the past is no guarantee it will continue in the future.
 
Hello Kacper,

Kacper said:
Yes.

Whatever they otherwise would have spent that added tax burden on.

Yes. You will be short-changing rich doctors, rich defense contractors, rich somebody.
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That is logical. The only way we can have this great nation which cares for all is to tax the rich more.
 
Hello Kacper,

Kacper said:
I have had a couple people who do laser surgery as well as traditional meatball stuff tell me that scalpel surgery is still better generally for most things because scalpel incisions are smaller and heal faster as the laser cauterize the blood vessels that are needed to heal back. I don't see the system replacing the humans with technology anytime in my lifetime.
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Then you need to open your eyes. The day is fast approaching when a machine can do better scalpel surgery than a human.
 
cawacko said:
Because reform is about growing the economy which is why it was business focused. We can eliminate federal taxes for those who make under $50K but ultimately that still won't close the gap.
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What about this tax cut has anything to do with growing the economy. It puts more money in the pockets of big business, to use for share buy backs, dividend increases, executive bonus and salaries. The little guy get almost nothing.
 
cawacko said:
Ok. Should we stop all technological advances then?
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Jesus...NO.

We should encourage it. Have the machines do as much of the work that has to be done...SO HUMANS DO NOT HAVE TO TOIL SO MUCH.

That is the reason machines are invented...to take the burden of work off the shoulders and backs of humans.

What we have to do is to make the philosophical changes needed to deal with the new REALITY.
 
Sometimes I think I was born too late and other times I wish I was born later.

In the future not everyone will have to work.

Machines will do most of the work.

We can't use our current model where the rich own the most amazing machines and use them to displace the poor from good jobs.

That wont' work.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Jesus...NO.

We should encourage it. Have the machines do as much of the work that has to be done...SO HUMANS DO NOT HAVE TO TOIL SO MUCH.

That is the reason machines are invented...to take the burden of work off the shoulders and backs of humans.

What we have to do is to make the philosophical changes needed to deal with the new REALITY.
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Agreed.

The minimum wage was based on a 40 hour week But the 40 hour week is a thing of the past. Most new jobs are part time.

We could consider a minimum hours law similar to the minimum wage law - but that would leave a lot of people out of work, because there are just not enough 40 hour jobs to go around.

Automation and offshoring (thanks to capitalism) have already caused a reduction in the number of 40 hour jobs below the needs of the national workforce.

We could chase the dog's tail around a tree by raising the min wage to $15, but most of those jobs will be the first to be automated whether we do or don't. The problem is bigger than an incorrect min wage.

Ultimately, we will have to have a very strong socialism element mixed in with our capitalism because there simply will not be enough jobs. It won't get much better for very long. If it does it will be temporary. The job losses will steadily advance and eventually displace most workers. We need interim steps to deal with the immediate imbalance, and we need to accept that longer term solutions are going to have to include a Universal Basic Income for all - for doing absolutely nothing.

This will be an age of enlightenment because people will have more time on their hands to learn and work out issues.
 
PoliTalker said:
Sometimes I think I was born too late and other times I wish I was born later.

In the future not everyone will have to work.

Machines will do most of the work.

We can't use our current model where the rich own the most amazing machines and use them to displace the poor from good jobs.

That wont' work.
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Exactly.

Humans will still work...but only the best will be REWARDED with jobs. (From which they will be able to derive MORE.)

And releasing humans from the NEED to work (having to "earn a living") is the only way I can think of to level the playing field between CAPITAL and LABOR in the free enterprise economy.

A person who does not have to "earn a living" MAY be willing to wipe your ass for you...but you are not going to get an ass wiping paying a coolie wage!
 
PoliTalker said:
Agreed.

The minimum wage was based on a 40 hour week But the 40 hour week is a thing of the past. Most new jobs are part time.

We could consider a minimum hours law similar to the minimum wage law - but that would leave a lot of people out of work, because there are just not enough 40 hour jobs to go around.

Automation and offshoring (thanks to capitalism) have already caused a reduction in the number of 40 hour jobs below the needs of the national workforce.

We could chase the dog's tail around a tree by raising the min wage to $15, but most of those jobs will be the first to be automated whether we do or don't. The problem is bigger than an incorrect min wage.

Ultimately, we will have to have a very strong socialism element mixed in with our capitalism because there simply will not be enough jobs. It won't get much better for very long. If it does it will be temporary. The job losses will steadily advance and eventually displace most workers. We need interim steps to deal with the immediate imbalance, and we need to accept that longer term solutions are going to have to include a Universal Basic Income for all - for doing absolutely nothing.

This will be an age of enlightenment because people will have more time on their hands to learn and work out issues.
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Yup. If capitalism as now constituted cannot get the job done (solve the problem of human labor being less and less valuable)...then something non-capitalistic HAS to be introduced.
 
Hello Kacper,

(me) "The day is fast approaching when a machine can do better scalpel surgery than a human."
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Kacper said:
Machines operated by surgeons so you still haven't taken the human out of the equation
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I don't think you grasp the reality of the situation. The machines will be operated by computers programmed with artificial intelligence, AI. Other machines will service the machines. Still others will study the efficiency and design replacement machines which will also be serviced by better service machines, which will also be designed by machines. Basically, humans will eventually no longer be needed for most current jobs. AI machines could even be programmed to create art.

That day has not arrived yet, but it is knocking on the door.
 
(me) "The only way we can have this great nation which cares for all is to tax the rich more."
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Kacper said:
Technically it isn't the only way, but is is the least disruptive path in relation to the current system.
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Perhaps you would like to lay out how the USA could be so great without our huge federal budget? Whatever is taken away makes us less great. I'm sure most will agree it is great that we take care of so many people, do so many things, govern ourselves the way we do, generate the world's largest economy, largest GDP even as we extend our compassion to the needy.

The rich pay most of the taxes. If we did not tax them more, our budget would be slashed to less than half. Most of our poverty assistance spending, if not all, would have to cease. And we would stop having a space program, a national weather service, or anything that studies anything or tries to learn more. We'd be reduced to a small military, some underpaid legislators who take orders from oligarchs, very little in the way of handling any foreign affairs, and reduced border security.

After all. It's not like the middle and the poor have much more to give the government. If we want any more than a mediocre country, we have to tax the rich more.
 
The wealthy have had their taxes cut over and over since Ikes time. Not going up. They are being taxes less and less. Corporations have also had their taxes slashed. Almost all that goes to the top 10 percent. The wealth gap in America is worse than during the Gilded Age. Trump is making it much worse. You Repubs voted for a plutocracy to run your lives, and you are getting it. But, so are we. The people who know better.
 
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