The noose just got tighter

[Ross Dolan]

It did not happen. Biden used the loan guarantees to get a corrupt prosecutor away from the money. He withheld nothing. No minutes and no seconds.
Hunter was offered a job because he was highly educated, experienced in lobbying and had political connections.

Yup.

And nobody attempted to hide what Biden did...because it was aboveboard...and because it was of advantage to America, its allies, AND Ukraine.

What Trump attempted to do was extortion...and attempts were made to hide it because everyone knew it was extortion...and everyone knew it DID NOT benefit America, its allies, and Ukraine...BUT ONLY BENEFITED Trump.

 

[Ross Dolan]

The lefts problem.....there is a TRANSCRIPT of the call. To prove there was never a bribe all Trump has to do is introduce that document in court. The only 1st hand witness to the call that actually spoke to the POTUS directly asked him about it, "What do you want from Ukraine......what do you want them to do?" The response? "Nothing, I want nothing.....no quid pro quo, I just want them to do the right thing."

The right thing? Abide by the 1998 treaty to investigate corruption. The congressional investigation is over...…...no more discovery by the accusers, its time to prosecute the evidence that you do have. A senate trial is not about continuing to search for a crime …..a senate trial is about the prosecution of the articles of impeachment. All the left has to do is prove Abuse of Power and Obstruction of Congress.....neither a crime.

One...there is NO transcript...just a summary.

Two...the EXTORTION did not take place entirely during the phone call. The phone call gives some evidence of the EXTORTION...but it is not the entire story. That is not the way extortionists work...even extortionists who happen to be morons, like Trump.

There is no doubt to anyone with an open mind that Trump attempted to extort Zelensky for his (Trump's) personal political gain.

But...continue the charade. You are forced to do so. Your Dear Leader requires it.

 

[Darth Omar]

Yup.

And nobody attempted to hide what Biden did...because it was aboveboard...and because it was of advantage to America, its allies, AND Ukraine.

What Trump attempted to do was extortion...and attempts were made to hide it because everyone knew it was extortion...and everyone knew it DID NOT benefit America, its allies, and Ukraine...BUT ONLY BENEFITED Trump.

Except Trump got exactly nothing from it lol.

Well, Trump got millions in campaign donations and a bounce in the polls but he owes that to Pelosi and the Democrats and not Zelensky.

But Frank, wasn’t Biden at least lying about extorting the Ukrainians? It’s an either/or proposition: either Biden really did pressure the Ukrainians or he was boasting/lying about doing it.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Except Trump got exactly nothing from it lol.

Ahhh...so you are in favor of not punishing attempted bank robbers who get stopped in the bank due to incompetence?

Darth, you are more intelligent than this. Stop now. Stop defending a person like Trump who would destroy this country and all of its institutions if he would personally gain from it.

Well, Trump got millions in campaign donations and a bounce in the polls but he owes that to Pelosi and the Democrats and not Zelensky.

For the love of the gods, Darth...stop it!

But Frank, wasn’t Biden at least lying about extorting the Ukrainians? It’s an either/or proposition: either Biden really did pressure the Ukrainians or he was boasting/lying about doing it.

Biden was applying pressure for the United States and its allies. His pressure was appropriate...and he was not doing personal profit extortion. It was pressure done out in the open...not hidden. He did brag about it, because it was action taken in furtherance of the interests of America, its allies...AND UKRAINE.

You know this, Darth. You can see it just as clearly as anyone on our side of the issue can. Drop the support for this disgusting abomination, Trump. Continue your support for American conservatism...for the Republican Party...and for your disgust with what Democrats support. But rid yourself of the burden of having to defend someone totally unworthy of your continued support.

 

[Darth Omar]

Ahhh...so you are in favor of not punishing attempted bank robbers who get stopped in the bank due to incompetence?

Darth, you are more intelligent than this. Stop now. Stop defending a person like Trump who would destroy this country and all of its institutions if he would personally gain from it.



For the love of the gods, Darth...stop it!



Biden was applying pressure for the United States and its allies. His pressure was appropriate...and he was not doing personal profit extortion. It was pressure done out in the open...not hidden. He did brag about it, because it was action taken in furtherance of the interests of America, its allies...AND UKRAINE.

You know this, Darth. You can see it just as clearly as anyone on our side of the issue can. Drop the support for this disgusting abomination, Trump. Continue your support for American conservatism...for the Republican Party...and for your disgust with what Democrats support. But rid yourself of the burden of having to defend someone totally unworthy of your continued support.

I can’t unsee it, Frank.

I can’t unsee the anti-Trumpers corrupting the FBI with their insurance policies, illegal surveillance, abuse of people’s 4th amendment rights, their Dossier’s used against a duly elected President, their calls for a coup.

I can’t unsee all that. That you refuse to comment on it and/or wave it off leaves me no choice but surmise you condone it.

You’re smarter than that, Frank.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I can’t unsee it, Frank.

I can’t unsee the anti-Trumpers corrupting the FBI with their insurance policies, illegal surveillance, abuse of people’s 4th amendment rights, their Dossier’s used against a duly elected President, their calls for a coup.

I can’t unsee all that. That you refuse to comment on it and/or wave it off leaves me no choice but surmise you condone it.

You’re smarter than that, Frank.

Trump is a disgusting disgrace and an existential threat to our Republic, Darth.

You refuse to see it, so you do not have to unsee it.

Okay.

Continue to support Trump like the blind Germans continued to support Hitler during the early 1930's. What could go wrong!

 

[Althea]

White House budget official told Pentagon that order to hold Ukraine aid came from Trump,


In the face of warnings from the Pentagon that the hold on military aid to Ukraine could be illegal, an official from the Office of Management and Budget made it clear that the order to keep the freeze in place came directly from President Donald Trump, according to unredacted documents reviewed by Just Security.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/02/politics/unredacted-ukraine-documents-pentagon-concerns/index.html

I don't believe that has ever been in question. The argument is that trump had the legal right to do so, and had no ill intentions.

 

[Althea]

what law did he break?

Was it listed in the articles of impeachment that Nancy won't send to the Senate?

Impeachment is dependent upon criminal activity? I thought Barr said that trump is 'above the law'?

 

[Darth Omar]

Trump is a disgusting disgrace and an existential threat to our Republic, Darth.

You refuse to see it, so you do not have to unsee it.

Okay.

Continue to support Trump like the blind Germans continued to support Hitler during the early 1930's. What could go wrong!

So, since Trump is essentially Hitler, it was ok to illegally spy on his campaign?

Is that your point, Frank?

 

[Iolo/Penderyn]

So, since Trump is essentially Hitler, it was ok to illegally spy on his campaign?

Is that your point, Frank?

Hitler was very much more intelligent and competent, of course, and capitalism was under serious threat: your Fatman is merely practicing. Nobody illegally spied on his campaign: they were too busy trying to fix Mrs Clinton to waste time on a horde of competitive nutters.

 

[Ross Dolan]

So, since Trump is essentially Hitler, it was ok to illegally spy on his campaign?

Is that your point, Frank?

NO...not at all.

Why are you saying that Trump's campaign was illegally spied upon?

Who did the "spying?"

Who revealed that the "spying" was done?

Are you sure you trust the source determining that spying was done?

 

[Darth Omar]

NO...not at all.

Why are you saying that Trump's campaign was illegally spied upon?

Who did the "spying?"

Who revealed that the "spying" was done?

Are you sure you trust the source determining that spying was done?

The Trump-Russian investigation is under criminal investigation for those very reasons, Frank.

Do you think I sit here and make stuff up lol? IG Horowitz [an Obama appointee] found 17 errors in the FBI’s application for FISA warrants [aka spy warrants] AND EVERY ONE OF THEM pointed in the same direction—against Carter Page, who was involved in the Trump campaign.

If I’m not mistaken you spend time at the dog track? I think I heard you say that. Even if you don’t, I know you’re smart enough to know the odds are astronomically AGAINST those being random errors. Want to make a bet they weren’t ‘random errors’ lol?

And if they aren’t random, what does that mean, Frank?

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Except Trump got exactly nothing from it lol.

Wrong. TRE45ON has several millions of you gullible marks who believe that the Bidens did something corrupt in Ukraine. I'm sure that you've noticed all the screeching from the Reichwingers to have both Joe and Hunter testify, even though they have zero to do with the charges in the articles of impeachment, right? So even without a shred of evidence, an entire voting bloc of morons believe that Biden is somehow tainted. I'd say TRE45ON got exactly what he wanted.

If you stop by 7-11 on your way home with the intention of robbing them, but end up with nothing, you've still committed a crime. So has TRE45ON.

 

[Jarod]

The Trump-Russian investigation is under criminal investigation for those very reasons, Frank.

Do you think I sit here and make stuff up lol? IG Horowitz [an Obama appointee] found 17 errors in the FBI’s application for FISA warrants [aka spy warrants] AND EVERY ONE OF THEM pointed in the same direction—against Carter Page, who was involved in the Trump campaign.

If I’m not mistaken you spend time at the dog track? I think I heard you say that. Even if you don’t, I know you’re smart enough to know the odds are astronomically AGAINST those being random errors. Want to make a bet they weren’t ‘random errors’ lol?

And if they aren’t random, what does that mean, Frank?

The Trump Russia investigation is under non-criminal investigation because Trump needed a distraction and all he could get, after firing his AG and installing a new one, was this small little investigation as a talking point.

 

[Darth Omar]

The Trump Russia investigation is under non-criminal investigation because Trump needed a distraction and all he could get, after firing his AG and installing a new one, was this small little investigation as a talking point.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...s/john-durham-criminal-investigation.amp.html

 

[Ross Dolan]

The Trump-Russian investigation is under criminal investigation for those very reasons, Frank.

Do you think I sit here and make stuff up lol? IG Horowitz [an Obama appointee] found 17 errors in the FBI’s application for FISA warrants [aka spy warrants] AND EVERY ONE OF THEM pointed in the same direction—against Carter Page, who was involved in the Trump campaign.

Under criminal investigation?

By whom?

And do you trust whomever you name as an answer to that question?

If I’m not mistaken you spend time at the dog track?

Never been to a dog track in my life.

I think I heard you say that. Even if you don’t, I know you’re smart enough to know the odds are astronomically AGAINST those being random errors. Want to make a bet they weren’t ‘random errors’ lol?

So...in your opinion, they are either random errors...or evidence of spying?

Sorta like that "I'd rather be dead than red" meme your side used to use on bumper stickers. My thoughts always were, "Aren't there any other choices?"

And if they aren’t random, what does that mean, Frank?

It means they were not random...IF they are not random.

It does not automatically mean that Trump's campaign was being spied on. It might mean that the suspicions that Carter Page required further investigation was being carried out...that the FBI was doing its job.

For the record, my OPINION is that nobody should have bothered to spy on Trump. He touts his ignorance...and makes sure to show it in public at every opportunity. The Trump campaign did not need a spy as a coping measure...it needed a psychiatrist or several.

Still does!

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Darth,

You’re evading the point lol.

Actually I see it as I am sticking to the point and you are trying to inject all kinds of other diversionary stuff. But I appreciate hearing your perspective because it is otherwise baffling how are person can be so well informed and still think Trump deserves to remain in office. The problem is not that you don't know what's going on. It's that so much of what you 'know' just isn't true. You're not underinformed. You're overinformed with disinformation. We know how Trump gets the uninformed. It is interesting to see how he also commands the support of the well informed.

Whataboutism amounts to ‘just because my side did something wrong doesn’t make it right when your side does it’.

Sorry. I do not subscribe to your weird definition of whataboutism. To me it is when a discussion comes along prompted by new evidence that Trump ordered the hold on the Ukrainian aid, and you turn it into the Steele Dossier. Now, to me, that is completely unrelated. But to you, it's all somehow part of the same thing. Personally, I think you're view is lost in a miasma of partisanship. I am just looking at whether Trump followed the Constitution. I see that he did not. That's the problem. It has nothing to do with the Dossier. If Democrats wanted to undo the 2016 election, the time to do it was just after the election. Not three years later after the term of office which was hoped to be avoided has already mostly transpired.

It’s arguably the lamest debate tactic to come down the pike in a generation but that’s beside the point. When you invoked whataboutism when the Dossier was brought up that means you accept that the Dossier was, in fact, a collection of gossip/propaganda collected from foreigners intended to sway an election and/or disrupt our politics.

Nice try, but you don't get to call whataboutism to the person who is sticking to the topic because they won't follow your tangent.

And boy, did it ever.

Not.

THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING DEMOCRATS ARE ACCUSING TRUMP OF. Except Trump’s *alleged* attempt was amateurish by comparison; nothing happened as a result; he got ZERO political benefit from it etc.

This is a BIG reason Democrats are struggling to get voters other than ‘the already convinced’ on board with their impeachment effort. Democrats are basically asking to voters to ignore/forget two separate things: one is, they, Democrats, are guilty, in spades, of election meddling and that was made even more clear with the Horowitz report.

Secondly, the Ukraine Silly Burger followed bloody immediately on the heels of their failed impeachment effort that began, in very large part, thanks to Hillary/DNC using a foreign cutout to collect dirt on Trump...from...wait for it...Russians!!!

You couldn’t write a spy novel that way. It’s too silly to believe and people would put it down. That’s exactly how absurd things have become.

Trump may suck—blah, blah, blah but that way in no way negates the fact that Democrats are accusing Trump of what they themselves are guilty of. And too many people see it for what it is because you have to literally be blind not to see it.

And once you see it, there’s no ‘unseeing’ it.

The reason you're using all caps is because deep down inside your twisted logic is bugging you. It's just not right to be supporting Trump. Your conscience knows it, and it tears you up inside. There is a cure for that. Just admit it to yourself for once. Trump is wrong. He has no morals. He's wrong for America. We made a big mistake electing him. All of this bitter partisanship and polarity is exactly what Putin wanted. This all works very well in Putin's favor. You know deep down in your heart that I am really right. And it scares you.

 

[Earl]

Who Is John Durham, the Prosecutor Investigating the Russia ...
https://www.nytimes.com › 2019/12/09 › politics › who-is-john-durham-atto...
Dec 9, 2019 - John H. Durham, a federal prosecutor conducting a criminal investigation into the origins of the F.B.I.'s Russia probe, said Monday that he ...

 

[Rusty Bell 65]

One...there is NO transcript...just a summary.

Two...the EXTORTION did not take place entirely during the phone call. The phone call gives some evidence of the EXTORTION...but it is not the entire story. That is not the way extortionists work...even extortionists who happen to be morons, like Trump.

There is no doubt to anyone with an open mind that Trump attempted to extort Zelensky for his (Trump's) personal political gain.

But...continue the charade. You are forced to do so. Your Dear Leader requires it.

EXTORTION is a pretty hefty and impeachable crime. Why didn't the house include EXTORTION in their silly impeachment circus? Maybe because it wasn't EXTORTION after all?

 

[Ross Dolan]

EXTORTION is a pretty hefty and impeachable crime. Why didn't the house include EXTORTION in their silly impeachment circus? Maybe because it wasn't EXTORTION after all?

It was extortion. Actually, it was attempted extortion...Trump fucked it up like he fucks up almost everything with which he comes into contact.

The House worded their articles in a way that conforms to other criteria.

RB, Trump is bad news...for our Republic; for the Republican Party you seem to favor; and for the conservative causes you champion.

Apparently you cannot see it...or refuse to acknowledge it.

Okay.

I will continue to do my best to fight him and his influence with as much vigor as I can muster.