End of the line for noted traitor Robert E Lee

[Mott the Hoople]

Hello Cypress,



A positive move forward.

And everything ever named after him should be renamed.

All the schools, highways, parks, etc.

We won.

Rebels lost.

Their heroes require no recognition.

Put up a statue of Lincoln instead.

You're wrong Poli. The United States lost the Civil War. We got to keep the South.

 

[Rusty Bell 65]

Statues aren't erected as reminders of what should never happen again. That's not the intent. Unless I've missed that.

A lot of the confederate statues were actually put up by sore losers who still wanted a way to convey white supremacy. Are we supposed to ignore that intent?

It seems you miss quite a bit.

There are a lot of statues, monuments and grave markers of the dead from both sides up here in PA. You think you want to come here and tear those down? Good luck...

 

[Rusty Bell 65]

The fact that Lee helped little old ladies across the street after the war does almost nothing to excuse the conscious moral choice he made to kill thousands of American soldiers and to fight in defense of the enslavement of millions in a chattel slavery economy.

Monuments of Confederate generals were not put up as a cautionary tale, a symbol that we should never forget.

If southerners really were interested in erecting monuments dedicated to learning the lessons of the civil war, they would have put up statues of Frederick Douglass and Sojourner Truth, rather than Robert E Lee and Nathan Bedford Forrest

His loyalty was with the state of Virginia. He surrendered as a gracefully as a defeated general.

Why do you have a problem with statues and monuments? Have they harmed you in any way?

Then you should write your representatives and ask them to erect monuments you want.

 

[BartenderElite]

It seems you miss quite a bit.

There are a lot of statues, monuments and grave markers of the dead from both sides up here in PA. You think you want to come here and tear those down? Good luck...

Grave markers are very different from statues.

Really? You have monuments whose original intent was to be a reminder of what should never happen again? They weren't erected to honor someone?

 

[Rusty Bell 65]

Grave markers are very different from statues.

Really? You have monuments whose original intent was to be a reminder of what should never happen again? They weren't erected to honor someone?

I suggest you visit Gettysburg.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

This ' book-burning ' has to stop. It's an over-reaction . A far more meaningful iconoclasm would be to eradicate the frontiersmen from history and kick all their descendants out of the country.

See how dumb you're being ?

Red lives matter. But not to Americans.

Palestinian lives matter. But not to Americans.

The hypocrisy is stomach-churning.

Not really. It's a Community issue to me. If a communities values have changed to a degree that a certain iconography no longer reflects their values, why shouldn't they remove it.

Let me give you an example. In Crawford County, Ohio there's a Statue of Colonial William Crawford who was an officer in the US Army on the Pennsylvania frontier in the late 18th century. During a raid into eastern Ohio Crawfords small army was routed by the Shawnee tribe and Crawford was captured alive. The Shawnee tried him by their tribal laws and sentenced him to death. They then proceeded to horribly torture Col. Crawford and then slow roasted him at the stake. It took hours for him to die and according to witness reports he did so with exceptional courage. For this he has been memoralized by the white inheritors of Crawford, Co Ohio (Which was named in his honor).

No from the Shawnee side it's pretty hard to argue in Col. Crawford's favor. His predecessor had invaded Ohio country in retaliation for Indian Raids and committed the infamous Gnadenhutten Massacre in which the Pennsylvania Militia executed over a hundred, mostly women and children and a few old men, by crushing their heads in with a copper mallet. To this day that massacre is considered a disgrace on Americas honor.

Col. Crawford took over command and though he was far more civilized than his predecessor he posted orders that in their invasion of Ohio country and Indians they came across were to be killed with no prisoners taken. It was that order that did him in as the Shawnee had obtained a copy of it. So though Col. Crawford was not responsible for the Gnadenhutten Massacre, the Shwanee...with considerable justification...executed him instead.

Now is Col. Crawford an example of Frontier courage in a very dangerous time and place to his white descendents of a man who died with great courage? Yes he was.

Was he a certifiable war criminal to the Shawnee...absolutely.

Now, for the sake of argument, if the Shawnee were the majority of the population in Crawford Co do you think it would be withing their right, as a community to remove his statue and change the name of the county? Damned right they would be.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Mott,

You're wrong Poli. The United States lost the Civil War. We got to keep the South.

I don't think we would have done quite as well in WWII without half the country. No Tuskeegee Airmen? Yikes.

 

[Cypress]

NASCAR bans Confederate flag at all Events

NASCAR statement:

“The presence of the confederate flag at NASCAR events runs contrary to our commitment to providing a welcoming and inclusive environment for all fans, our competitors and our industry. Bringing people together around a love for racing and the community that it creates is what makes our fans and sport special. The display of the confederate flag will be prohibited from all NASCAR events and properties.”

 

[Cypress]

Celebrated General David Petraeus say Confederates were Traitors

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehil...federate-traitors-like-benning-bragg-from?amp

 

[Cypress]

His loyalty was with the state of Virginia. He surrendered as a gracefully as a defeated general.

Why do you have a problem with statues and monuments? Have they harmed you in any way?

Then you should write your representatives and ask them to erect monuments you want.

I like statutes in public parks which make a statement about a person or idea the comnunity at large can admire and honor.

Robert E Lee owned slaves and had a direct economic and personal interest in fighting to keep slavery. He knew he was fighting to maintain a chattel slave economy which ranks as one of the worst crimes against humanity in the last 200 years

If Lee coul not stay loyal to the United States he should have never attended West point and put on the uniform of the US Army.

 

[Sailor]

So when are Democrats going to demand all the statues of Robert Byrd get taken down?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I am not a mind reader.

I think it is possible a Trump-appointed general could reach the conclusion that honoring Confederate generals is detrimental to force moral and modern US Army principles.

If you make the case that this general is caving to pressure from Antifa et al, you are welcome to your opinion.

If anyone is actually genuinely interested in history, I recommend reading books on General Lee, taking classes on the Confereracy, and I would even like to see reputable museums on the history of the civil war.

Personally, I do not learn that much history by looking at a statue. And I have always questioned if the movement to erect and preserve monuments to Confederate generals really grew out of a genuine scholarly interest in history -- or if there were ulterior motives for fetishizing the Confederate military leadership.

No shit, Cypress. Why do you think the General, Asst. Sec or whomever is pushing to change the names after a century?

To accuse me of making an anti "antifa" rant is just making you look stupid, paranoid, bigoted or all-of-the-above.

I fully encourage everyone to read more history. Reputable history. Not history taught by a political activist.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

That's not ' antisemitism- that's anti-Zionism, Zionism being a doctrine of ethnic cleansing.
Zionism and Judaism are NOT synonymous. There are more Christian Zionists in America than there are Jews.

The solution to the problem of the Zionist High Command and its stormtroopers is INTERNATIONAL LAW. I've put that in caps because you seem unaware of it.

You're also clearly unaware that a great many IZRAELIS believe that Izrael is racist- and they LOVE it.

ROFL. What dictionary are you using because that is not what common history states. https://www.history.com/topics/middle-east/zionism

Your attempt at dodging is weak and lame. Work on it.

Since there is no country named "Izrael", your bias is just as strong as first noted.

 

[Cypress]

No shit, Cypress. Why do you think the General, Asst. Sec or whomever is pushing to change the names after a century?

To accuse me of making an anti "antifa" rant is just making you look stupid, paranoid, bigoted or all-of-the-above.

I fully encourage everyone to read more history. Reputable history. Not history taught by a political activist.

You will find exactly zero fair minded and reasonable posters who will agree with you that I am stupid, paranoid, bigoted.

I personally cannot understand why we would want a US Army base named after the military commander of an enemy, foreign army. Confederate States of America General and slave owner Braxton Bragg is reputed to be one of the most bumbling commanders of the war, he lost almost every battle he commanded in, and was supposedly widely unpopular with his men.

I do not see Fort Bragg being a suitable or honorable name for a major US Army installation.

 

[Rusty Bell 65]

You will find exactly zero fair minded and reasonable posters who will agree with you that I am stupid, paranoid, bigoted.

I personally cannot understand why we would want a US Army base named after the military commander of an enemy, foreign army. Confederate States of America General and slave owner Braxton Bragg is reputed to be one of the most bumbling commanders of the war, he lost almost every battle he commanded in, and was supposedly widely unpopular with his men.

I do not see Fort Bragg being a suitable or honorable name for a major US Army installation.

So anyone who disagrees with you in not "fair minded"?

Looks like NASCAR has also banned the Confederate flag at their races, but then, NASCAR has sucked for years.

So just because a few snowflakes don't like the names of our military bases, they expect us to change their names?
What is wrong with people? I'm "offended" by liberals, how about we ban them? I'd bet I'd get more support for that
than liberals get for destroying statues, hating on and changing military base names. Wanna bet?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I suggest you visit Gettysburg.

You will find exactly zero fair minded and reasonable posters who will agree with you that I am stupid, paranoid, bigoted.

I personally cannot understand why we would want a US Army base named after the military commander of an enemy, foreign army. Confederate States of America General and slave owner Braxton Bragg is reputed to be one of the most bumbling commanders of the war, he lost almost every battle he commanded in, and was supposedly widely unpopular with his men.

I do not see Fort Bragg being a suitable or honorable name for a major US Army installation.

You know what’s sad? Not one military base is named after US Grant. The greatest General of the Civil War and, after Napoleon, the greatest general of the 19th Century.

Not only that but General Washington and General Pershing we’re both promoted in rank to five star rank retroactively so that they would be senior in rank to five star Generals from WWII. Grant was denied that honor by neo-Confederates in Congress. Now Pershing was a great General but no one in their right mind would consider him the equal of Grant.

That is how systemic and corrupting the lost cause mythology has been to our nation that our largest military base, by population, Fort Bragg is named after a complete Jackass and asshole and a military incompetent widely regarded as the worst General of the Confederacy.

 

[Rusty Bell 65]

You know what’s sad? Not one military base is named after US Grant. The greatest General of the Civil War and, after Napoleon, the greatest general of the 19th Century.

Not only that but General Washington and General Pershing we’re both promoted in rank to five star rank retroactively so that they would be senior in rank to five star Generals from WWII. Grant was denied that honor by neo-Confederates in Congress. Now Pershing was a great General but no one in their right mind would consider him the equal of Grant.

That is how systemic and corrupting the lost cause mythology has been to our nation that our largest military base, by population, Fort Bragg is named after a complete Jackass and asshole but a military incompetent widely regarded as the worst General of the Confederacy.

Although I don't disagree with what you say, why didn't anyone cry until Trump was elected? Why didn't anyone bitch and moan when these names were selected?
The left needed something to hang around Trump's neck, and it is racism. They call him and everyone who voted for him a racist. Do you think every one of us are racist?

 

[moon]

Do you think every one of us are racist?

Silence favors the racists, paleface. If you're not against racism, you're for it.

Let's hear you condemn Zionist racism.

 

[Rusty Bell 65]

Silence favors the racists, paleface. If you're not against racism, you're for it.


Let's hear you condemn Zionist racism.

Go away, stupid foreigner. My concern is not with what other nations do. My concern is that this country is not overrun with assholes like you, which will be our downfall.

 

[moon]

Go away, stupid foreigner. My concern is not with what other nations do. My concern is that this country is not overrun with assholes like you, which will be our downfall.

America's racist police are being trained in racism by Zionist racists, paleface.

Your piddling and cowardly paleface response was to be expected.

Go home. America has enough stupid racism fans.