America Retreating from Religion

Cypress said:
Persecution of Galileo was caught up in the politics of the counter reformation, and that combined with his belligerent and repellant personality, is what got him in trouble.

The church was open to evaluating his hypothesis, and accepting it if it was convincing. The papacy had their own scientists (the Jesuits) look at Galileo's work, but they decided it simply was not compelling enough scientifically to accept at that time.

Galileo simply did not have the mathematics and mechanics to support his hypothesis.

What Galileo had was a hypothesis. Not a comprehensive theory.

We had to wait for Newton's mechanics and math to convince ourselves that the Galilean-Keplarian view of the solar system was the correct one.
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"In 1633, the Inquisition of the Roman Catholic Church forced Galileo Galilei, one of the founders of modern science, to recant his theory that the Earth moves around the Sun. Under threat of torture, Galileo – seen facing his inquisitors – recanted. But as he left the courtroom, he is said to have muttered, ‘all the same, it moves’. "
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg13618460-600-vatican-admits-galileo-was-right/

"Vatican admits Galileo was right"

Waiting 350 years to admit they were wrong doesn't really strike me as "Biblical literalism is not a tenet of Roman Catholicism". I think you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Cypress said:
The longer version of her article on her blog is notable for these observations:

The precipitous belief in God is limited to the demographic of people who have an unshakable belief in God and zero doubts God exists. That itself probably explains a decline in church attendance.

The demographic that is increasing are the people who believe in the possibility/probability of God, but have doubts about it.

The author draws a bimodal distinction between a group of people who think the bible is literally true, and those who think it is fables. There is no strict bimodal distribution in the population. The author's approach is biased in assuming that biblical literalism and inerrancy is representative of Christianity. Biblical literalism is a tenet of the Protestant tradition. Biblical literalism is not a tenet of Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy.
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Look no further than the ACTIONS of evangelicals to understand why many are retreating from religion.
 
Cypress said:
Persecution of Galileo was caught up in the politics of the counter reformation, and that combined with his belligerent and repellant personality, is what got him in trouble.

The church was open to evaluating his hypothesis, and accepting it if it was convincing. The papacy had their own scientists (the Jesuits) look at Galileo's work, but they decided it simply was not compelling enough scientifically to accept at that time.

Galileo simply did not have the mathematics and mechanics to support his hypothesis.

What Galileo had was a hypothesis. Not a comprehensive theory.

We had to wait for Newton's mechanics and math to convince ourselves that the Galilean-Keplarian view of the solar system was the correct one.
Click to expand...


Sounds like you wish Galileo was put to death by the Church.
 
Nordberg said:
Churches have created a lot of this. Their political stances automatically piss off half the parishioners. Many leaders with the gospel of profit for them, are driving logical people away. Churches are the bastions of hypocrisy. The Catholic church has a big hand in people questioning their faith. They did the wrong thing with the alter boys. They acted like a corporation rather than a religion.
If churches want to be political, they must pay taxes.
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Churches have to be forced to pay property tax. Federal law preventing them from being assessed property tax violates the Constitution.
 
BidenPresident said:
Sounds like you wish Galileo was put to death by the Church.
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You are a terrible mind reader. I only try to remain true to the historical record.

Galileo was ahead of his time, and had a great hypothesis for cosmic motion.

It is easy with 500 years of hindsight to just assume everyone should have immediately just seen how correct Galileo's hypothesis was.

The papacy's own scientists were arguably correct to conclude that Galileo had an intriguing hypothesis, but it was not supported by a mechanistic and mathematical explanation. Newton was the one who finally made a convincing argument for cosmic motion supported by mathematical and mechanistic explanation.

The geocentric view of the universe favored by the Church was not based on scripture - it was based on Aristotle. Aristotle's authority carried great weight with the Catholic Church, and for the church to overturn Aristotelian mechanics in favor of Galileo was going to take more than a hypothesis. It was going to take a comprehensive and mechanistically convincing theory.

It took 80 years for Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection to be widely accepted in the scientific community, and that only came as a result of work in genetics by Mendel and others.

We are all prone to hindsight and Monday morning quarterbacking.
 
Cypress said:
You are a terrible mind reader. I only try to remain true to the historical record.

Galileo was ahead of his time, and had a great hypothesis for cosmic motion.

It is easy with 500 years of hindsight to just assume everyone should have just seen how correct Galileo's hypothesis was.

The papacy's own scientists were arguably correct to conclude that Galileo had an interesting hypothesis, but it was not supported by a mechanistic and mathematical explanation. Newton was the one who made a convincing argument for cosmic motion supported by mathematical and mechanistic explanation.

The geocentric view of the universe favored by the Church was not based on scripture - it was based on Aristotle. Aristotle's authority carried great weight with the Catholic Church, and for the church to overturn Aristotelian mechanics in favor of Galileo was going to take more than a hypothesis.

It took 80 years for Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection to be widely accepted in the scientific community, and that only came as a result of work in genetics by Mendel and others.
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You know nothing about Galileo. As usual, you love hearing your own voice.
 
Cypress said:
You are a terrible mind reader. I only try to remain true to the historical record.

Galileo was ahead of his time, and had a great hypothesis for cosmic motion.

It is easy with 500 years of hindsight to just assume everyone should have just seen how correct Galileo's hypothesis was.

The papacy's own scientists were arguably correct to conclude that Galileo had an intriguing hypothesis, but it was not supported by a mechanistic and mathematical explanation. Newton was the one who made a convincing argument for cosmic motion supported by mathematical and mechanistic explanation.

The geocentric view of the universe favored by the Church was not based on scripture - it was based on Aristotle. Aristotle's authority carried great weight with the Catholic Church, and for the church to overturn Aristotelian mechanics in favor of Galileo was going to take more than a hypothesis. It was going to take a comprehensive and mechanistically convincing theory.

It took 80 years for Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection to be widely accepted in the scientific community, and that only came as a result of work in genetics by Mendel and others.
Click to expand...

"The geocentric view of the universe favored by the Church was not based on scripture - it was based on Aristotle. Aristotle's authority carried great weight with the Catholic Church, and for the church to overturn Aristotelian mechanics in favor of Galileo was going to take more than a hypothesis."

hahahaha ... why should the Church have ANY opinions on SCIENCE. Their expertise is on Magic and Mysticism.
 
Cypress said:
The longer version of her article on her blog is notable for these observations:

The precipitous belief in God is limited to the demographic of people who have an unshakable belief in God and zero doubts God exists. That itself probably explains a decline in church attendance.

The demographic that is increasing are the people who believe in the possibility/probability of God, but have doubts about it.

The author draws a bimodal distinction between a group of people who think the bible is literally true, and those who think it is fables. There is no strict bimodal distribution in the population. The author's approach is biased in assuming that biblical literalism and inerrancy is representative of Christianity. Biblical literalism is a tenet of the Protestant tradition. Biblical literalism is not a tenet of Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy.
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Those that have doubts are no different than those that flat out deny God.

To God, an atheist and a lukewarm "believer" are no different.

Revelation 3:15-16 - I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

Matthew 10:33 - But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
 
blackascoal said:
Look no further than the ACTIONS of evangelicals to understand why many are retreating from religion.
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An incredible amount of phony Christians out there. Soren Kierkegaard maintained that being an authentic Christian is extemely hard work.

My main beef is with white, fundamentalist evangelicals and their political power.

I always have to remind myself that Jimmy Carter and Senator-elect Warnock are evangelical Christians
 
CFM said:
Those that have doubts are no different than those that flat out deny God.

To God, an atheist and a lukewarm "believer" are no different.

Revelation 3:15-16 - I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

Matthew 10:33 - But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
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I love that you and Cypress love Jesus so much. Both supporting 'Religion'.
 
Cypress said:
An incredible amount of phony Christians out there. Soren Kierkegaard maintained that being an authentic Christian is extemely hard work.

My main beef is with white, fundamentalist evangelicals and their political power.

I always have to remind myself that Jimmy Carter and Senator-elect Warnock are evangelical Christians
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Yes, yes. Which is the 'Real' God?
 
katzgar said:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-u-s-is-retreating-from-religion/
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2 Thessalonians 2
New King James Version
The Great Apostasy

2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
 
Religion took it's biggest hit during the Trump Administration. While Baptist preachers across the nation propped up Donald Trump as their leader, abused their BULLY PULPITS as well, by turning their Sunday Morning sermons into Trump Rallies, and "Thank God For Donald Trump" nonsense. Attendees divided and dropped out of the Large Metropolitan Baptist churches and took up attendance at the smaller neighborhood Cowboy Baptist churches that ended up becoming political in nature as well during the Trump era.

So, liberals didn't feel welcome in these churches, and felt uncomfortable with the politics that would leech through every sermon and prayer. Many of these churches passed around two plates. One for the usual tithes, and one asking for Campaign Contributions for the Donald Trump campaign. So, millions of people just said that is a Bridge Too Far for them, and they dropped out of church completely.

It was clear and evident that the RNC as well as the Trump Campaign, was using the BAPTIST pulpits across the nation to help get Donald Trump elected in 2016, and prop him up throughout his Rogue ADMINISTRATION of the last 4 years!

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