Why does the explosion in variants correlate with the vaccines?

gfm7175 said:
If the "variants" came around earlier on, when nobody was vaccinated yet, then Demonkkkrats wouldn't've been able to demonize the unvaccinated for the existence and spread of those "variants". COVID tyranny is a carefully orchestrated political ploy.

Thus, I am choosing to be truthful by purposely referring to any so called "variants" as "Midterm variants".
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Yup.

The Vax Fundies [maybe one day they’ll figure out they are the pharmaceuticals useful idiots—or maybe not] have a dog in this fight: if the vaccines are stimulating [however you want to put it] mutations then they lose one of their clubs to beat the unclean infidels over the head with.

It doesn’t matter to me one way or the other.
 
anatta said:
from what i read the vaxx "protects" from all.. lamda or delta may show symptomatic, but the severity of the illness is much less ( so you test positive, and you may have symptoms, but not acute or hospiatalizations)
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The vaccine right now protects you from every variant known so far, there will be more. If it varies enough it may make the vaccine not nearly as effective. Since recently every single person in a packed St Louis hospital with covid was not vaccinated and most of them have this delta variant it is obvious that the vaccine works against the delta variant. If and when lots of vaccinated people start showing up with covid we will know there is a new variant that our vaccine is not effective at combatting.
 
he fact that there were no variants for a long period of time points to the fact COVID did not naturally evolve. It came from a single lab source. If it had come from nature we would have seen multiple variants very early on.
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
The presence of a vaccine doesn't cause a mutation. It changes the environment so a different mutation is the one more likely to survive/thrive.
Evolution doesn't really attempt to overcome anything. (That is simply an attempt to anthropomorphize a process that is random.) It has no direction and can't attempt to do anything. It is simply a matter of which mutation is best suited for the current environment. The mutation may be far from the best possible mutation but is only the best one that actually occurred.
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you confuse hosts -which ALL you had to say- with "enviornment"
which is simply the population of hosts.
Like I said your terms are so elastic they are meaningless.

And vaccines DO cause mutations -
A vaccine is a novel selection pressure placed on a pathogen, and if the vaccine does not eradicate its target completely, then the remaining pathogens with the greatest fitness — those able to survive, somehow, in an immunized world — will become more common.
https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathogens-to-evolve-20180510/
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which i what you might have been trying to say - i dont know because you wander all over the place, conflate terms, and posit illogic
 
Is it helpful to pose a medical science question on a political discussion forum? It is, I guess, if the idea is to spin groundless theories, in this case a theory for undercutting support for Covid vaccines. Fortunately, just a cursory Google search will inform anyone that viruses mutate into variants just fine all by themselves. Also good, the vaccines if you've had both shots protect against the variants too.
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
The host is part of the environment. Geez. Environment is the term to describe the habitat where something lives.
Mutations occur within one host but then are passed on to other hosts where more mutations can occur. That is also the environment since the virus MUST pass from host to host to survive long term.

Since the mutations must survive to become a variant and then a strain, it would appear that no vaccine is needed to create strains and variants. Surprise! That's what I have been saying. The only thing the vaccine does is change the environment by reducing the number of viable hosts for a strain thereby changing which strain can thrive.
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In all of your semantical somersaults you’ve done everything but explain what prevents a virus from mutating around [again, however you want to put it] a vaccine.

Is evolution limited in some instances?
 
If CCP had a bunch of variants already cooked up. It would have made sense for them to release them all at one time to make it look like it was evolving from nature.
 
Port Tack said:
Not at all, totally expected. Are you saying somebody is inventing these things to get you to take the vaccine? What the fuck for?
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This is a new right wing dumbshit meme. 'If vaccines are causing variants, we should stop taking vaccines.' They are desperately trying find something scientific to back their ignorant, superstitious anti-vax stance. So they make shit up. Or, more to the point, their handlers make shit up and they parrot it.
 
Darth Omar said:
Well, they’re all natural mutations as far as it goes but it’s Darwin 101 that species will evolve [via mutations] according to environmental pressure. Slower gazelles get eaten so only the faster ones pass on their genes yada yada.

The basics of Darwin can be learnt in an afternoon.

It’s entirely plausible that the vaccines are creating a kind of environmental pressure on the viruses and they are evolving different strains as a result. IOW, similar to how antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria will pop up when antibiotics are over used.

But these are unclean thoughts in the Church of Vax, so lol.
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That is fucking ridiculous. Yes species will evolve and slower gazelles get eaten just like the dumbshits who don't get vaccinated, catch covid and die, don't get to pass their "stupid" genes on to someone else.
 
anatta said:
Vaccines Are Pushing Pathogens to Evolve
https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathogens-to-evolve-20180510/
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from the article- The big question is whether the vaccines directly incited these changes or the evolution happened, coincidentally, for other reasons, but Read is pretty sure the vaccines have played a role.

the vaccines probably do have a small role, but would these variants evolve and mutate even more if more people in a huge community were un-vaccinated? YES.
 
Keep in mind the same individuals here dissing vaccines were the same individuals a year ago who were arguing that herd immunity alone was the only answer to Covid
 
Port Tack said:
That is fucking ridiculous. Yes species will evolve and slower gazelles get eaten just like the dumbshits who don't get vaccinated, catch covid and die, don't get to pass their "stupid" genes on to someone else.
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Well, I hope you've learnt something.

ROTFLFMAO!!! These fucking hillbillies are almost illiterate. I guess Darth thinks he's English royalty.
 
martin said:
Is it helpful to pose a medical science question on a political discussion forum? It is, I guess, if the idea is spin groundless theories, in this case a theory for undercutting support for Covid vaccines. Fortunately, just a cursory Google search will inform anyone that viruses mutate into variants just fine all by themselves. Also good, the vaccines if you've had both shots protect against the variants too.
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When posters claim that not being vaccinated is somehow going to cause more variants—that is a medical science claim.

My stance is the vaccines are irrelevant with respect to viruses forming variants. I suggest they find another reason for vax passports because that one doesn’t cut it. Zero Covid is a pipe dream because it’s going to be impossible to vaccinate virtually everyone on the planet to stay ahead of the variants.
 
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