“I think the CDC...made a mistake"

Dutch Uncle said:
This article is mainly about the Delta variant and the “pandemic of the unvaccinated.” Buried down in the article is a comment by Dr. Emily Landon, chief infectious-disease epidemiologist at University of Chicago Medicine, who astutely noted that the CDC made a mistake by looking at the pandemic solely as a biological issue and not including that fact social science has a place in reducing the severity of a pandemic.

It's been posted on JPP before that the entire Trump Cult is a social issue. Q anon (the Qless) is mainly a collection of losers and mentally ill Americans feeding on Trump's lies and fantasies.

Biden's comments about Facebook "killing" Americans due to the wash of false information on it is a social issue. Los Angeles has reinstituted an indoor mask mandate as a social science response to what should be a biological issue without the prevalence of false information and Americans who can't tell the difference between truth and lies fostered by Trump and his sycophants.

What interests me most is the recognition that social science has a valid application in saving lives in the midst of a pandemic. I also believe that social sciences have a place in preventing more cults, be they religious or political figures. As noted elsewhere, I believe social sciences are the most useful tool in preventing violence in America, be it with guns, knives, cars or physical rage as the world saw on 1/6.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/17/delta-cases-rising/
As the delta variant spreads, the messaging from public health experts and officials is unequivocal: Vaccines are the best protection against severe illness and hospitalization. More than 97 percent of new hospitalizations from the delta variant are from people who are unvaccinated, making what Rochelle Walensky, who directs the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, calls “a pandemic of the unvaccinated.”...

...Emily Landon, chief infectious-disease epidemiologist at University of Chicago Medicine, said the CDC should have included parameters on the mask rules, such as establishing a threshold allowing unvaccinated people to go without masks only if a certain percent of the population is inoculated.

“I think the CDC in May made a mistake,” Landon said. “They made a recommendation based on biological science, but not any social science. Unfortunately, the policy of letting people self-sort into vaccinated and unvaccinated resulted in a sort of behavioral science problem.”
Click to expand...

You may want to check, but Israel might be putting the ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated’ meme to bed.

Where does partisan scapegoating during a pandemic come into the equation? All these deaths ‘that are Trump supporters fault’. Wouldn’t that be a societal issue?
 
I flew yesterday. At least the airports and airlines still have this right. That won't prevent spread
once people get to destinations, but it will attenuate it inside terminals and the planes.
 
Concart said:
It's an excellent point. No one is wearing masks, but half the country remains unvaccinated. It isn't that hard to figure out that someone stupid enough to pass on getting vaccinated is also dishonest enough to pretend they are. The Trump cult is now officially a death cult. They are killing each other, but unfortunately kids and breakthoughs are collateral damage for their stupidity. I'm going back to masking and avoiding crowds. I shouldn't have to, but the unselfish assholes are putting us right back in the soup. If you are unvaccinated in Florida, you are at the highest risk you have ever been for Covid. Fuck the Trumptards.
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Those under 12 are not even allowed to get the vaccines...the number that matters is the percentage of adults who have gotten at least one shot....which I am pretty sure is above 70%.

The really big story is that power put all of our eggs in the vaccine basket, and that they are already beginning to fail.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Those under 12 are not even allowed to get the vaccines...the number that matters is the percentage of adults who have gotten at least one shot....which I am pretty sure is above 70%.

The really big story is that power put all of our eggs in the vaccine basket, and that they are already beginning to fail.
Click to expand...

Nearly 50% of new cases in the UK are in the vaccinated population while the wave in the unvaccinated appears to have peaked:
_____________


According to ZOE COVID Study incidence figures, it is estimated that among unvaccinated people in the UK there are currently 17,581 new daily symptomatic cases of COVID on average, based on PCR test data from up to five days ago [*]. A decrease of 22% from 22,638 last week. Suggesting that the wave in the unvaccinated population has now peaked in the UK. The overall number of estimated cases is 33,118 which remains similar to last weeks which was 33,723.

Comparatively there are currently 15,537 new daily symptomatic cases in partly or fully vaccinated people, an increase of 40% from 11,084 new cases last week. With cases in the vaccinated group continuing to rise, the number of new cases in the vaccinated population is set to overtake the unvaccinated in the coming days.

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/new-cases-plateau-aead-of-freedom-day
 
Darth Omar said:
Nearly 50% of new cases in the UK are in the vaccinated population while the wave in the unvaccinated appears to have peaked:
_____________


According to ZOE COVID Study incidence figures, it is estimated that among unvaccinated people in the UK there are currently 17,581 new daily symptomatic cases of COVID on average, based on PCR test data from up to five days ago [*]. A decrease of 22% from 22,638 last week. Suggesting that the wave in the unvaccinated population has now peaked in the UK. The overall number of estimated cases is 33,118 which remains similar to last weeks which was 33,723.

Comparatively there are currently 15,537 new daily symptomatic cases in partly or fully vaccinated people, an increase of 40% from 11,084 new cases last week. With cases in the vaccinated group continuing to rise, the number of new cases in the vaccinated population is set to overtake the unvaccinated in the coming days.

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/new-cases-plateau-aead-of-freedom-day
Click to expand...

The criminally negligent mismanagement of this pandemic continues. This mismanagement has greatly accelerated the decline of the West....China just keeps gaining more power. I am no longer dismissing the idea that the Chinese released this bug on purpose knowing that they had to tools to manage it whereas the West has very corrupt and incompetent leadership. I am also increasingly thinking it is likely that this bug is going to evolve onto the bug we have been dreading....the one that kills over 100 million people. We are currently at 4 million.

That will make the global warming fanatics happy.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The criminally negligent mismanagement of this pandemic continues. This mismanagement has greatly accelerated the decline of the West....China just keeps gaining more power. I am no longer dismissing the idea that the Chinese released this bug on purpose knowing that they had to tools to manage it whereas the West has very corrupt and incompetent leadership. I am also increasingly thinking it is likely that this bug is going to evolve onto the bug we have been dreading....the one that kills over 100 million people. We are currently at 4 million.

That will make the global warming fanatics happy.
Click to expand...

Meh, I don’t see that happening.

I think medical tech is too advanced to ever see those kinds of numbers. It’s why a rerun of the Spanish Flu is unlikely.

Plus lethality in pathogenic bugs is apparently self-limiting: it doesn’t ‘benefit’ the species if it kills too many of its hosts so that exerts selection pressure in the opposite direction and it would evolve into a less virulent strain over time.
 
Darth Omar said:
Meh, I don’t see that happening.

I think medical tech is too advanced to ever see those kinds of numbers. It’s why a rerun of the Spanish Flu is unlikely.

Plus lethality in pathogenic bugs is apparently self-limiting: it doesn’t ‘benefit’ the species if it kills too many of its hosts so that exerts selection pressure in the opposite direction and it would evolve into a less virulent strain over time.
Click to expand...

This one is going in the opposite direction, it is getting worse all the time.

This is interesting:

Becoming more transmissible and less lethal are absolutely what’s best for the pathogen,” said Day. “But the problem is that it’s not always possible, and in many instances is never possible, to be more transmissible and also less lethal.”

Day said there are documented cases of animal viruses that evolved over time to become more lethal, including myxoma virus in rabbits and Marek’s disease in chicken. Some viruses provoke severe symptoms in their hosts that make it easier to transmit the virus to others. But those same symptoms can wind up killing the hosts. “The virus, speaking anthropomorphically, just wants to spread and have its genes replicated,” said Adalja. “If the best way for it is to spread by causing severe symptoms, it will continue to do that.”
Click to expand...
https://www.berkshireeagle.com/ap/f...cle_f487aa84-db63-11eb-b25e-8bf27c46f3f4.html
 
I haven't read the rest of the thread but yeah basically the social factors are very important. I agree that the CDC made a mistake. They should have known based on history and precedents. Somebody fucked up.

There is a big house with many family members. Someone gets the flu. What do they do?
 
Darth Omar said:
Exceptions to every rule lol.

There’s no reason to think the CCP virus is going to do that and there’s no indication that it is.
Click to expand...

You are not paying attention.

Not only is the risk of death from Delta twice as high, it is so transmissible that outbreaks in Australia have been traced back to moments of “scarily fleeting” contact. These characteristics don’t just demand caution, but a reevaluation of current public health policy.
Click to expand...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/willia...t-a-time-of-increased-danger/?sh=7397798d2750
 
However, newer variants have been found to be more resistant to vaccines with regards to symptomatic infections and neutralising antibody response. To curtail this vaccine resistance and, in anticipation of potential vaccine escape, multiple strategies are at play internationally. Vaccine manufacturers are working towards booster doses of vaccines to mount a more robust immune response, with some boosters targeted against new variants (16). Another strategy, currently being evaluated, is mixing-and-matching vaccines from different manufacturers. Multiple studies are underway to test different combinations of vaccines, and the preliminary data shows promising results (17)
Click to expand...
https://www.dawn.com/news/1635721

Not only do we face the vaccines likely failing at some point but that this bug is doing better at beating the natural immune response is huge. The young have not been getting sick mostly because their immune systems have been successfully beating this bug off without help. But younger people are now getting sick as this bug evolves. This is a huge problem. It looks almost certain that this bug is evolving to take more years of life as it kills younger and younger people.

We are losing.
 
I submit that the experts know that we are losing but refuse to tell the truth that we are losing because their crap leadership is the reason we are losing. This is one of the main drivers of the hysteria to get everyone vaxxed immediately as they pray that this would work, which is doubtful.

We need a new and better plan, now.

We also need better experts.

Buckle Up.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Unfortunately, because of these fucking morons, more people will needlessy die and the nation may have to go back to self-quarantine procedures.

BTW, these same fucking morons are adversely impacting both national security and the economy. The stupid selfish science-deniers have no sense of patriotism, only their love for a Cult of Personality.
Click to expand...
Let me meander a bit before I circle back.

The argument that is always regurgitated during the Iraq war debate is "Democrats voted for the war". Said claim ignores the temperature of the nation at the time. How soon we forget that the term 'patriotic', or the converse was thrown around every day. Anyone who spoke out against the invasion was immediately deemed 'unpatriotic'. Freedom Fries anyone? Those damned French had some nerve refusing to support the Blood For Oil campaign.

No pressure on anyone in Congress to vote for a limited campaign in Iraq. None whatsoever.

I digress.

How easy we forget the claim that lockdowns were killing more people than the virus was. The economy had to open up immediately. People are committing suicide. If I had nothing better to do, I could link hundreds of posts from this board that made these claims.

Given that, most of us believed that when the vaccine was finally available, everyone would rush to get it. trump managed to politicize the damned vaccine after it failed to get him re elected. He made claims that the pharma companies purposely withheld it so that he would lose the election.

So the CDC errantly believed that the vaccine would be the panacea that addressed all of the issues mentioned above.

We now see that the social aspects are becoming more pertinent with respect to this mess than anyone could have believed.

It's a sad commentary on our nation.


I've started wearing a mask again in stores not because I'm worried about Covid. I wear it to show that I didn't vote for trump. With this variant making a comeback, I'm taking the same precautions we did last year so that I don't infect any of the idiots who refuse the Covid vaccine.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
This article is mainly about the Delta variant and the “pandemic of the unvaccinated.” Buried down in the article is a comment by Dr. Emily Landon, chief infectious-disease epidemiologist at University of Chicago Medicine, who astutely noted that the CDC made a mistake by looking at the pandemic solely as a biological issue and not including that fact social science has a place in reducing the severity of a pandemic.

It's been posted on JPP before that the entire Trump Cult is a social issue. Q anon (the Qless) is mainly a collection of losers and mentally ill Americans feeding on Trump's lies and fantasies.

Biden's comments about Facebook "killing" Americans due to the wash of false information on it is a social issue. Los Angeles has reinstituted an indoor mask mandate as a social science response to what should be a biological issue without the prevalence of false information and Americans who can't tell the difference between truth and lies fostered by Trump and his sycophants.

What interests me most is the recognition that social science has a valid application in saving lives in the midst of a pandemic. I also believe that social sciences have a place in preventing more cults, be they religious or political figures. As noted elsewhere, I believe social sciences are the most useful tool in preventing violence in America, be it with guns, knives, cars or physical rage as the world saw on 1/6.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/17/delta-cases-rising/
As the delta variant spreads, the messaging from public health experts and officials is unequivocal: Vaccines are the best protection against severe illness and hospitalization. More than 97 percent of new hospitalizations from the delta variant are from people who are unvaccinated, making what Rochelle Walensky, who directs the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, calls “a pandemic of the unvaccinated.”...

...Emily Landon, chief infectious-disease epidemiologist at University of Chicago Medicine, said the CDC should have included parameters on the mask rules, such as establishing a threshold allowing unvaccinated people to go without masks only if a certain percent of the population is inoculated.

“I think the CDC in May made a mistake,” Landon said. “They made a recommendation based on biological science, but not any social science. Unfortunately, the policy of letting people self-sort into vaccinated and unvaccinated resulted in a sort of behavioral science problem.”
Click to expand...

Makes no sense. The CDC had never seen people conned by a man like Trump and the gnus stations that do his dirty work.
The doctors announced the facts on TV over and over. They told us the dangers. About 30 percent rejected the experts and selected what Trump and his TV people said. That is not a behavior problem but one of people susceptible to believing a liar over scientists. The doctors had nothing to gain from telling the truth. Trump saw lying as a way to take the blame from him.
 
I just posted a thread re. trump's claim that morons aren't getting vaccinated because they don't trust the election results.

I think Biden may have been right about FB, even though I disagree with the way he presented it.

Facebook isn't killing anyone. They're simply allowing the misinformation that is contributing to the problem in this nation.
 
Althea said:
Let me meander a bit before I circle back.

The argument that is always regurgitated during the Iraq war debate is "Democrats voted for the war". Said claim ignores the temperature of the nation at the time. How soon we forget that the term 'patriotic', or the converse was thrown around every day. Anyone who spoke out against the invasion was immediately deemed 'unpatriotic'. Freedom Fries anyone? Those damned French had some nerve refusing to support the Blood For Oil campaign.

No pressure on anyone in Congress to vote for a limited campaign in Iraq. None whatsoever.

I digress.

How easy we forget the claim that lockdowns were killing more people than the virus was. The economy had to open up immediately. People are committing suicide. If I had nothing better to do, I could link hundreds of posts from this board that made these claims.

Given that, most of us believed that when the vaccine was finally available, everyone would rush to get it. trump managed to politicize the damned vaccine after it failed to get him re elected. He made claims that the pharma companies purposely withheld it so that he would lose the election.

So the CDC errantly believed that the vaccine would be the panacea that addressed all of the issues mentioned above.

We now see that the social aspects are becoming more pertinent with respect to this mess than anyone could have believed.

It's a sad commentary on our nation.


I've started wearing a mask again in stores not because I'm worried about Covid. I wear it to show that I didn't vote for trump. With this variant making a comeback, I'm taking the same precautions we did last year so that I don't infect any of the idiots who refuse the Covid vaccine.
Click to expand...

The same CDC that has been nearly constantly wrong and often found to be lying and which also turned up incompetent at their two most important jobs....developing tests and tracking and analyzing data.

They have so fucked us.
 
Nordberg said:
Makes no sense. The CDC had never seen people conned by a man like Trump and the gnus stations that do his dirty work.
The doctors announced the facts on TV over and over. They told us the dangers. About 30 percent rejected the experts and selected what Trump and his TV people said. That is not a behavior problem but one of people susceptible to believing a liar over scientists. The doctors had nothing to gain from telling the truth. Trump saw lying as a way to take the blame from him.
Click to expand...
Exactly. A serial pathological liar has control of half of the nation.
 
Althea said:
Let me meander a bit before I circle back.

The argument that is always regurgitated during the Iraq war debate is "Democrats voted for the war". Said claim ignores the temperature of the nation at the time. How soon we forget that the term 'patriotic', or the converse was thrown around every day. Anyone who spoke out against the invasion was immediately deemed 'unpatriotic'. Freedom Fries anyone? Those damned French had some nerve refusing to support the Blood For Oil campaign.

No pressure on anyone in Congress to vote for a limited campaign in Iraq. None whatsoever.

I digress.

How easy we forget the claim that lockdowns were killing more people than the virus was. The economy had to open up immediately. People are committing suicide. If I had nothing better to do, I could link hundreds of posts from this board that made these claims.

Given that, most of us believed that when the vaccine was finally available, everyone would rush to get it. trump managed to politicize the damned vaccine after it failed to get him re elected. He made claims that the pharma companies purposely withheld it so that he would lose the election.

So the CDC errantly believed that the vaccine would be the panacea that addressed all of the issues mentioned above.

We now see that the social aspects are becoming more pertinent with respect to this mess than anyone could have believed.

It's a sad commentary on our nation.


I've started wearing a mask again in stores not because I'm worried about Covid. I wear it to show that I didn't vote for trump. With this variant making a comeback, I'm taking the same precautions we did last year so that I don't infect any of the idiots who refuse the Covid vaccine.
Click to expand...

1-There's always pressure on all politicians. The fact their character and/or spine was so weak that they surrendered to stupidity is a violation of their duty. It's their fucking job and they failed their duty.

2-Trump is a notorious liar and his followers are notoriously stupid and/or delusional.

3-Disagreed the CDC is that stupid. The experts say one thing and the politicians spin it how they like. It doesn't matter if it's mobile laboratories suspected of being bioweapon labs or the probability of an effective vaccine; there will always be politicians spinning it to their advantage if they can.

What chaps my ass about fucking politicians is that the experts in medicine, intelligence, the military, etc will couch their language with numbers, not guesses. It's the fucking politicians who put the spin on it, one way or another, and cause guesses to formulate among the citizenry.

The CDC does have a behavioral science section. This CDC link states:

"The behavioral and social sciences incorporate a number of disciplines, and each brings a variety of theoretical perspectives and methodologic approaches to its particular areas of study. At CDC, these sciences are represented primarily by psychology, sociology, anthropology, and economics. Armed with their unique frameworks, scientists from these fields can use qualitative, quantitative, or multiple methods to explore the effects of behavioral, social, and cultural factors on public health problems. As with all research at CDC, behavioral and social science research ranges from basic to applied; however, these disciplines contribute most to applied public health through intervention research, program evaluation, and policy analysis."

Why this division of the CDC wasn't more proactive or, more probably, their advice followed, is a current mystery. Who fucked up? Was it at the CDC or above their level?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
1-There's always pressure on all politicians. The fact their character and/or spine was so weak that they surrendered to stupidity is a violation of their duty. It's their fucking job and they failed their duty.

2-Trump is a notorious liar and his followers are notoriously stupid and/or delusional.

3-Disagreed the CDC is that stupid. The experts say one thing and the politicians spin it how they like. It doesn't matter if it's mobile laboratories suspected of being bioweapon labs or the probability of an effective vaccine; there will always be politicians spinning it to their advantage if they can.

What chaps my ass about fucking politicians is that the experts in medicine, intelligence, the military, etc will couch their language with numbers, not guesses. It's the fucking politicians who put the spin on it, one way or another, and cause guesses to formulate among the citizenry.

The CDC does have a behavioral science section. This CDC link states:

"The behavioral and social sciences incorporate a number of disciplines, and each brings a variety of theoretical perspectives and methodologic approaches to its particular areas of study. At CDC, these sciences are represented primarily by psychology, sociology, anthropology, and economics. Armed with their unique frameworks, scientists from these fields can use qualitative, quantitative, or multiple methods to explore the effects of behavioral, social, and cultural factors on public health problems. As with all research at CDC, behavioral and social science research ranges from basic to applied; however, these disciplines contribute most to applied public health through intervention research, program evaluation, and policy analysis."

Why this division of the CDC wasn't more proactive or, more probably, their advice followed, is a current mystery. Who fucked up? Was it at the CDC or above their level?
Click to expand...

The complete failure of the CDC has been well documented, though almost never will the Mind Molders talk about it.

Your education was always first and foremost your responsibility.
 
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