Looks Like Things Are Getting Worse In Kabul

The main lesson from Afghanistan is that the ‘war on terror’ does not work

Iopposed the initial invasion of Afghanistan on the grounds that terrorism is a heinous crime but not a war, and that we needed to use the techniques of policing and intelligence, while tackling the underlying causes of terrorism, rather than military methods to deal with the problem.

Many of us said at the time that the attacks of 9/11 should have been viewed as a crime against humanity, not as an attack by a foreign state. The terrorists should have been designated as criminals not enemies. As the distinguished war historian Michael Howard said, the phrase “war on terror” accorded the “terrorists a status they seek and do not deserve”.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/24/lesson-afghanistan-war-on-terror-not-work
 
Over 40,000evacuated. It is going extremely well. What a great job they are doing. And we will not be sending Americans to Afghanistan and wasting all that money.Biden was right to leave and the Trumpys agree.
 
Moreover, private security contractors used by the US government suddenly withdrew, taking with them the logistical infrastructure needed by the security forces. Above all, the decision to withdraw, taken by the Trump administration and upheld by the Biden administration without conditions, had led to peace talks with the Taliban that excluded the government and civil society and greatly empowered the former. For many in the security forces, the hasty withdrawal appeared to signal that the US had changed sides and was now supporting the Taliban, and this was what undermined the will to fight.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/24/lesson-afghanistan-war-on-terror-not-work
 
The main lesson from the Afghan experience is that the “war on terror” does not work. Twenty years after the invasion, extremist Islamists are celebrating their victory. It is true, as Biden said, that the US conducts counter-terror operations in multiple places; the consequence has been the spread of extremist Islamism not just in Afghanistan and the Middle East but in large parts of Africa. If we take the danger seriously, then we need a different human security approach. One that combines policing and intelligence with tackling injustice, establishing legitimate political authority, and that aims to marginalise and arrest terrorists rather than turn them into martyrs.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/24/lesson-afghanistan-war-on-terror-not-work
 
RB 60 said:
Frank, you are not adding to the discussion.
Click to expand...

Okay! Valid criticism, RB.

So...

...things ARE getting worse in Kabul...

...but they are not nearly as bad yet as I supposed they would be.

I now suspect we will complete the mission of removing all Americans...and nearly all of the Afghanis looking to escape the Taliban.

My impression right along was that finally ending this thing was going to be a nightmare. Getting out when there is no clear victory is never pretty.

But Joe Biden had the balls to finally say "enough is enough." W Bush, Obama, and Trump all talked the talk...and did nothing but kick the can down the street.

I applaud Joe Biden for DOING what had to be done.

I think the people rooting against him are morons...and the people supposing he is failing at something that had "failure" written all over it, are jerks.

We gotta get all our people out...and as many of the Afghan people who were our aides as possible.

Let's all hope that happens.

Better to root for Biden to succeed than hope that the clueless, classless moron Trump comes back to power.

I hope that was better.
 
In Pakistan we cultivated the Taliban, then turned on them. Now we can only hope they

More than four decades ago, our leaders insisted we had to help the Afghan mujahideen fight the Soviets because that would help us ward off communism in our own country. Having lived most of my life in Pakistan, I have probably come across half a dozen communists – and even they never agreed with each other.

That first jihad made generations of Afghans homeless but it also made some people in Pakistan very rich.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/24/pakistan-taliban-us-retreat
 
Phantasmal said:
Trump kissed their asses and gave them everything they asked for, they did not fear him, they probably think he’s a sucker.
Click to expand...

Yet, you continue on with your ignorance.

I doubt Trump showing the Taliban leaders the coordinates of their own family's homes is ass kissing. Not one American was killed ion 18 months after President Trump told those asshats what was going to happen if they strayed from the agreed upon plan.
 
Jim Eagle said:
Biten really fucked this up, that piece of shit.
Click to expand...

Biden told us that it was a chaotic procedure. He did a great job evacuating the Americans and helpers. Who would have thought it would happen so peacefully? You are as usual , flat-out wrong and just being a righty saying anything Biden does is bad.
Trump was right wanting to get out of Afghanistan. It was too tough for him to handle. It is hard to manage from a golf course.
 
Nordberg said:
Biden told us that it was a chaotic procedure. He did a great job evacuating the Americans and helpers. Who would have thought it would happen so peacefully? You are as usual , flat-out wrong and just being a righty saying anything Biden does is bad.
Trump was right wanting to get out of Afghanistan. It was too tough for him to handle. It is hard to manage from a golf course.
Click to expand...

Trump also wanted to be King of the United States.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Okay! Valid criticism, RB.

So...

...things ARE getting worse in Kabul...

...but they are not nearly as bad yet as I supposed they would be.

I now suspect we will complete the mission of removing all Americans...and nearly all of the Afghanis looking to escape the Taliban.

My impression right along was that finally ending this thing was going to be a nightmare. Getting out when there is no clear victory is never pretty.

But Joe Biden had the balls to finally say "enough is enough." W Bush, Obama, and Trump all talked the talk...and did nothing but kick the can down the street.

I applaud Joe Biden for DOING what had to be done.

I think the people rooting against him are morons...and the people supposing he is failing at something that had "failure" written all over it, are jerks.

We gotta get all our people out...and as many of the Afghan people who were our aides as possible.

Let's all hope that happens.

Better to root for Biden to succeed than hope that the clueless, classless moron Trump comes back to power.

I hope that was better.
Click to expand...

Biden's remark on National TV was the goal was to oust Al-Qaeda and kill Bin-laden, and that goal was achieved.

So why didn't he (as VP) and Obama pull out troops out then? Why did they wait until Trump started the talks to leave?

People are rooting for a safe and efficient extraction, and so far, it's become a nightmare and getting worse.

As for Trump, he has nothing more to do with it. It's all Biden's baby now. He watched the Taliban take over the country, he should have made different, safer extraction plans.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
except the Taliban wasn't in charge of Afghanistan in 2020........that didn't happen until August of 2021......
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when the president of afghan's sugar daddy- the US- has a meeting to discuss the future of afghan after we leave in a little while, and only invite the Taliban to the meeting- you have have just made the Taliban in charge of Afghanistan.
 
RB 60 said:
Skirmishes with Afgan forces were widely reported, but large invasions were rare.
Click to expand...
They were making deals with the tribal chiefs, they didn’t need force. The big cities were the only place that “democracy” was practiced and the Afghan government was in control.
 
RB 60 said:
Biden's remark on National TV was the goal was to oust Al-Qaeda and kill Bin-laden, and that goal was achieved.

So why didn't he (as VP) and Obama pull out troops out then? Why did they wait until Trump started the talks to leave?

People are rooting for a safe and efficient extraction, and so far, it's become a nightmare and getting worse.

As for Trump, he has nothing more to do with it. It's all Biden's baby now. He watched the Taliban take over the country, he should have made different, safer extraction plans.
Click to expand...

hey, dummy, that occurred in 2001- when bush was president.


Bin Laden's Tora Bora escape, just months after 9/11 - BBChttps://www.bbc.com › world-us-canada-14190032
Jul 21, 2011 — Bin Laden had escaped to Pakistan - his exact route remains disputed - and there he would remain, out of sight, for close to another ten years ...

How Osama bin Laden Escaped - Foreign Policyhttps://foreignpolicy.com › 2009/12/11 › how-osama-bin-...
Dec 11, 2009 — In December, 2001, a small group of U.S. special operations forces had al Qaeda's main man cornered in Tora Bora. Days later, he crossed the ...

How Bin Laden Escaped in 2001—The lessons of Tora Borahttps://www.thedailybeast.com › how-bin-laden-escape...
Dec 15, 2013 — ... won extraordinary victories in Afghanistan and closed in on Bin Laden before high-level blunders allowed him to escape into Pakistan.

just like with vietnam and iraq, it is easy to get our soldiers mired in a a country's civil war, exceedingly hard to pull the plug and leave when our "allies" do nothing to help themselves.
 
volsrock said:
Did you know, that POWs are to be released when a deal is reached to end a war!!

You POSs wanted this war ended and it was, you cant keep holding POWs. Or do u think POWs should be held after war has ended?
Click to expand...
Lol, it was done before the Taliban kept their part of the deal and against the wishes of the Afghan government that we established. They were never included in the talks.
 
Hoosier Daddy said:
hey, dummy, that occurred in 2001- when bush was president.


Bin Laden's Tora Bora escape, just months after 9/11 - BBChttps://www.bbc.com › world-us-canada-14190032
Jul 21, 2011 — Bin Laden had escaped to Pakistan - his exact route remains disputed - and there he would remain, out of sight, for close to another ten years ...

How Osama bin Laden Escaped - Foreign Policyhttps://foreignpolicy.com › 2009/12/11 › how-osama-bin-...
Dec 11, 2009 — In December, 2001, a small group of U.S. special operations forces had al Qaeda's main man cornered in Tora Bora. Days later, he crossed the ...

How Bin Laden Escaped in 2001—The lessons of Tora Borahttps://www.thedailybeast.com › how-bin-laden-escape...
Dec 15, 2013 — ... won extraordinary victories in Afghanistan and closed in on Bin Laden before high-level blunders allowed him to escape into Pakistan.
Click to expand...


Bush ordered troops to allow bin Laden to escape at Tora Bora.
 
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