Madison Cawthorn (R-NC) vs. the 14th Amendment.

[Flash]

Per the FBI; terrorism = "the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social goals."

Furthermore, those who have sworn an oath to the Constitution and then warred against it such as an attempted coup, are guilty of treason. https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artIII-S3-C1-1-2/ALDE_00001226/

I'm curious if they will go after the vets and former elected officials who involved. AFAIK, it's never been tested in court, but the Oath to the Constitution is forever.

I think treason has to involve giving "aid and comfort" to the enemy which usually applies to foreign enemy. Also, it must be during times of war. The Rosenbergs gave secret atomic weapon information to the Soviets and were executed for espionage. They were not charged with treason because we were not at war.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I think treason has to involve giving "aid and comfort" to the enemy which usually applies to foreign enemy. Also, it must be during times of war. The Rosenbergs gave secret atomic weapon information to the Soviets and were executed for espionage. They were not charged with treason because we were not at war.

There's two parts. The link explains it. In court it usually means people who has sworn an oath as mentioned.

Example; all those who swore an oath and are part of this are guilty of treason. Those who haven't are terrorists.

 

[Flash]

I'm not a fucking lawyer, but it will be lawyers and judges who determine if we can keep our Republic or give it up to power and bullshit.

"A Republic if you can keep it."
Although there is no proof positive, the response came from Mrs. Elizabeth Willing Powell's question, "Well, Doctor. What have we got? A Republic or monarchy?" Mrs Powell was the wife of Philadelphia Mayor Samuel Powel and both a prominent social figure, but also a friend of Franklin.

Flash forward over 230 years and the question remains the same "Well, Doctor, what have we got? A Republic or a monarchy?" The answer also remains the same: "A Republic if you can keep it."

TBH, I'm not sure we can. If the lies and bullshit keep being given a pass, there will be a lot of dead Americans before we can see peace again.

In some ways that'll be good because it will mostly be the violent, stupid one who die, but like COVID, a lot of innocents die too. Sad

Franklin and some of the other Founders feared we could not keep our republic because they thought it would "deteriorate" into a democracy. They were right, but we do not think that is a bad thing today. For example, by the 1840's most states were choosing electors by popular vote which the framers sought to avoid.

 

[Flash]

Example; all those who swore an oath and are part of this are guilty of treason. Those who haven't are terrorists.

If they have two witnesses who testify against a third party that they were part of that conspiracy. I can't imagine government or party officials actually meeting to plan violence. That would be really stupid given that many of them are lawyers.

 

[Jerry Mathers]

The insurrection may come into play for the Mid-terms.

Madison Cawthorn, a key speaker for Trump's insurrection, is up for reelection in NC's 13th District but his bid may be disqualified by the 14th Amendment. It's possible that all of the elected reps, including Trump, may be ineligible for election.

https://wlos.com/news/local/madison...-speech-for-people-north-carolina-district-13
Nonprofit organization Free Speech for People, a "nonpartisan, non-profit legal advocacy organization with constitutional law expertise," which is serving as lead counsel in the matter, announced on Monday that the challenge was filed before the North Carolina State Board of Elections. The challenge "alleges that Cawthorn is constitutionally disqualified from public office under the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution based on reasonable suspicion that he helped facilitate the January 6, 2021 insurrection," the nonprofit described in its press release.

The legal challenge brought against Rep. Cawthorn cites Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment, known as the Disqualification Clause, which states, in part, “No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress. . . who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress . . . to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.”

Monday's release adds that no criminal conviction is required under the clause, and that "Cawthorn would be able to seek judicial review of an adverse decision."

good thing it was a demonstration.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Franklin and some of the other Founders feared we could not keep our republic because they thought it would "deteriorate" into a democracy. They were right, but we do not think that is a bad thing today. For example, by the 1840's most states were choosing electors by popular vote which the framers sought to avoid.

There's a downside to a pure democracy where the stupid can vote. A good start is to make everyone pass a citizenship exam before they can vote.

Nonetheless, the Republicans are putting us on a path to change their name to the Aristocrats and extremely authoritarian ones too.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

If they have two witnesses who testify against a third party that they were part of that conspiracy. I can't imagine government or party officials actually meeting to plan violence. That would be really stupid given that many of them are lawyers.

Okey Dokey.

My experience is that patriots will die for each other but thieves and liars will roll on each other to save their own asses.

 

[Flash]

There's a downside to a pure democracy where the stupid can vote. A good start is to make everyone pass a citizenship exam before they can vote.

Nonetheless, the Republicans are putting us on a path to change their name to the Aristocrats and extremely authoritarian ones too.

I don't think they worried about a direct democracy so much as a representative democracy with more public participation in choosing officials. In the original Constitution the only role for voters was in choosing House members. Then, states began to allow voters to choose electors, then we started directly electing senators. Choosing electors and Senators gives the public some influence over the selection of federal judges.

"letting the people choose the president is like letting a blind man choose colors"

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I don't think they worried about a direct democracy so much as a representative democracy with more public participation in choosing officials. In the original Constitution the only role for voters was in choosing House members. Then, states began to allow voters to choose electors, then we started directly electing senators. Choosing electors and Senators gives the public some influence over the selection of federal judges.

"letting the people choose the president is like letting a blind man choose colors"

Considering that most revolutions end in chaos and dictatorships, very few Americans appreciate how close our nation came to going the same way. All the monarchists predicted we'd fail because we are too stupid to think for ourselves. The fucking morons trying to overthrow our Constitution and install a dictator are proving those past predictions correct.

 

[Walt]

Who determines that proof?

There are election qualification boards that determine things like residence, age, and other similar things. They would assumable be who determines it. These questions have not been brought up in a while, so they are still working out who does.

But we know the standard is not to a criminal case certainty.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

North Carolina elections board says it has power to disqualify Rep. Cawthorn from running over January 6

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/08/poli...s-board-madison-cawthorn-january-6/index.html

Should be fun. LOL

 

[Dutch Uncle]

There are election qualification boards that determine things like residence, age, and other similar things. They would assumable be who determines it. These questions have not been brought up in a while, so they are still working out who does.

But we know the standard is not to a criminal case certainty.

Agreed. In this case, the North Carolina State Board of Elections will decide.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Since you support killing kids in the name of overthrowing the US Constitution, your veracity is in doubt.

restore. the constitution has already been overthrown, so it's restore. your intelligence is in doubt

 

[SmarterthanYou]

He can claim all he likes but my understanding is that there's clear evidence he was part of the planning team.

is that evidence as strong as the evidence you said would have rittenhouse sitting in prison for years?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

restore. the constitution has already been overthrown, so it's restore. your intelligence is in doubt

You're free to delude yourself that you are a freedom fighter murdering Americans to install a dictator but I disgree.

You've posted hundreds of times that I'm stupid, cowardly, not a Marine, etc. After the first times it no longer has any effect.

You, OTOH, constantly advocate the violent overthrow of the United States government and our Constitution. That is fact documented on this forum. I've quoted your posts to prevent you deleting them.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

is that evidence as strong as the evidence you said would have rittenhouse sitting in prison for years?

ROFL You're desperate again.

It sounds like the evidence is as strong as the evidence against Derek Chauvin but like Kyle's case was up to Wisconsin, Cawthorne's case is up to North Carolina. The fact certain RW white supremacist authoritarian cocksuckers disagree any of them should be in jail and want Federal authority to override the states is clear but I disagree.

 

[Truth Detector]

Terrorism=political violence.

Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.

Breaking into a building and getting shot by police does not constitute the definition. Unless you're a dumb partisan hack with your head up your ass, then yes, it makes perfect sense.

I chose to use the Ted Cruz term since "riot" does not necessarily involve political goals and insurrection requires proof of intent. Only the Oath Keepers were charged with sedition conspiracy because prosecutors have gathered a lot of their communications (online and during the violence) indicating their intent and preparation. But, you are right in that those charges are difficult to prove. Things like threats, incitement, etc. are all difficult because a history of court decisions requires more than the simple wording of the law.

Let me simplify this bullshit for you: blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah

There was $30 million in property damage. The 769 people being charged with crimes is more than a "few" who got out of hand. Nothing has to get burned to try to disrupt finalizing the electoral votes.

That's a pile of bullshit. You must have gotten those numbers from MSNBC, Nothing was destroyed. The only people who died that day or were shot, were protestors.

There were weapons involved. One veteran plead guilty to possessing Molotov cocktails, unregistered firearms, a crossbow. Weapons used against the police officers included the barriers, fire extinguisher, stolen police shield, baseball bat, hockey stick, a rebar, a flag pole, pepper spray and bear spray, and stun gun. Over a dozen police officers went to the hospital with injuries like concussions and bone fractures. There were several charged with carrying firearms on Capitol grounds including an off-duty DEA agent.

That's a pile of bullshit. You must have gotten that info from MSNBC, Nothing was destroyed. The only people who died that day or were shot, were protestors.

 

[Truth Detector]

There's a downside to a pure democracy where the stupid can vote.

YOU being the best example of that.

A good start is to make everyone pass a citizenship exam before they can vote.

That would be unconstitutional, and, unnecessary if we had an educational establishment that actually educated our citizens. .

Nonetheless, the Republicans are putting us on a path to change their name to the Aristocrats and extremely authoritarian ones too.

Ironic that you bloviate this stupid nonsense with Democrats in charge of everything. You're not very smart are you?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I watched Cawthorn's lawyer interview on CNN this morning. He started out fine then quickly devolved into standard Q Anon conspiracy theories and then started slinging accusations that that the Lefty Antifa and BLM got better treatment.

IMO, Cawthorn is going to lose in NC. It's not a court case, it's an NC election board decision.

https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reidout-blog/madison-cawthorn-elections-board-rcna15499
The North Carolina board said a voter challenge to Republican Rep. Madison Cawthorn’s eligibility to run in future elections should move forward.

The North Carolina State Board of Elections said a constitutional challenge to Rep. Madison Cawthorn’s candidacy should be allowed to proceed despite the Republican lawmaker's efforts to stop it.

In a court filing Monday, the board argued that Cawthorn's lawsuit to end a voter challenge to his bid for re-election was premature and should be dismissed.

A group of North Carolina voters filed the challenge last month, urging the board to disqualify Cawthorn from future elections due to his involvement in last year's pro-Trump rally that immediately preceded the Jan. 6 insurrection. Cawthorn, a tree-punching extremist known for targeting opponents with violent rhetoric, repeated then-President Donald Trump's baseless claims of election fraud during his speech at the Jan. 6 rally. And in August, he warned there could be “bloodshed” over future elections Republicans consider to be rigged.

 

[Truth Detector]

Considering that most revolutions end in chaos and dictatorships, very few Americans appreciate how close our nation came to going the same way.

I am so tired of hearing this moronic MSNBC talking point. Yet, with all the investigations, not a shred of proof that Trump was anything BUT a patriot making things better for Americans.

Do you have anything to back this stupidity up with?

All the monarchists predicted we'd fail because we are too stupid to think for ourselves.

They're all gone, we're still here. So much for that laughably stupid prediction.

The fucking morons trying to overthrow our Constitution and install a dictator are proving those past predictions correct.

More proof that you're an ignorant, uneducated dumbass who parrots the stupid talking points of MSNBC and CNN. [/quote]

The only one's trampling the Constitution or attempting to, is the Democratic Party of the Jackass and the low IQ constituents who think Government is awesome.