Archaeology of the New Testament

[Ichabod Stain]

Cypress insists, without explanation, that the random dust cloud you and I call the observable universe is nonetheless "well ordered." He ignores the information that the universe passes every test of randomness.

Cypress insists that the universe is finely tuned, without explaining for what, exactly. He tries to imply that the universe is finely tuned for "life" yet fails to explain why 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999+% of the universe is hostile to life.


Let's put on our "Christianity" caps for a moment and assume a Christian God who has a master plan, which includes an individual plan for each of us. If that's all there were to it, we could expect all life to exist in a "well ordered" slaughter line for each of us to remain restricted to following our exact path until our deaths. But wait, such a well ordered world would preclude free will. Our Christianity caps tell us that we have free will, and that the observable universe isn't going to be regulating our choices any more than a free market. For that to happen, the universe would have to be random, with no dependencies that regulate our choices.

But then you pause and think, how would God be able to effect his plan in a random universe, and the answer is that it would be a really cool trick if He could pull it off. Then we notice that the observable universe really is a completely random dust cloud. Each Christian must evaluate his own free will situation, but if the conclusion is that one has free will, and that God has a master plan, then the completely random nature of the universe indicates that God pulled it off.

Jussayn.

cypress means things like gravity being consistent or a dispersion pattern of dust in zero breeze being consistent are signs of an ordered universe.

super gay.

 

[IBDaMann]

cypress means things like gravity being consistent or a dispersion pattern of dust in zero breeze being consistent are signs of an ordered universe.

super gay.

The word that Cypress seeks is "stochastic."

 

[Into the Night]

I paid attention to what Jesus said was important.

the golden rule is the sum of the law and the prophets.

you turn a deaf ear to jesus.

Inversion fallacy.

 

[Ichabod Stain]

Inversion fallacy.

and yes. therefore jesus turns a deaf ear to you.

 

[Cypress]

Cypress insists, without explanation, that the random dust cloud you and I call the observable universe is nonetheless "well ordered." He ignores the information that the universe passes every test of randomness!

Just because it never occurred to you to investigate the reasons atomic matter and structure even exist in the universe doesn't mean other people haven't investigated it.

Cypress insists that the universe is finely tuned, without explaining for what, exactly. He tries to imply that the universe is finely tuned for "life" yet fails to explain why 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999+% of the universe is hostile to life!

That's got almost nothing to do with it.

Fine tuning is the framework of fundamental physical constants taking on invariant universal values, which if they all didn't converge on these precise values would mean atomic matter and structure would never have existed. I would add that the universe is curiously finely balanced between net positive energy and net negative energy, and without being balanced on this razor's edge the universe either would have flown apart so fast atomic matter and large scale structure wouldn't have coalesced, or the universe would have collapsed back in on itself within fractions of a second.

 

[Ichabod Stain]

Just because it never occurred to you to investigate the reasons atomic matter and structure even exist in the universe doesn't mean other people haven't investigated it.

That's got almost nothing to do with it.

Fine tuning is the framework of fundamental physical constants taking on invariant universal values, which if they all didn't converge on these precise values would mean atomic matter and structure would never have existed. I would add that the universe is curiously finely balanced between net positive energy and net negative energy, and without being balanced on this razor's edge the universe either would have flown apart so fast atomic matter and large scale structure wouldn't have coalesced, or the universe would have collapsed back in on itself within fractions of a second.

maybe the universe is flying apart fast. we're just not at the edge.

 

[Cypress]

maybe the universe is flying apart fast. we're just not at the edge.

There is no edge. The cosmological principle holds that the universe is isotopic at large scales, and there is no edge, boundary, or anything we would recognize as a center.

 

[Ichabod Stain]

There is no edge. The cosmological principle holds that the universe is isotopic at large scales, and there is no edge, boundary, or anything we would recognize as a center.

I'm the center.

 

[Ichabod Stain]

observer effect.

 

[Cypress]

Cypress -- regularly denies the Bible. It's rather interesting to watch.

Great. The atheists believe I am a holy roller, and the Bible thumpers believe I am an atheist .

I read the Bible responsibly. That means I respect literary style and don't read everything like it's historical biography or scientific reporting.

There is only a limited amount of history in the Bible, and no scientific reporting. The Bible is a vast collection of stories, parables, poetry, proverbs, mythology, metaphor, hyperbole, creeds, epistles. There is only a limited amount of historical narrative.

If you somehow don't believe that fundamental truths can be transmitted through mythology, story, poetry, proverb, parable then your going to have to explain why teachers of English and world literature made us read Uncle Tom's Cabin, Huck Finn, Shakespeare, the Iliad, Virgil, 1984, etc.

 

[Into the Night]

and yes. therefore jesus turns a deaf ear to you.

Inversion fallacy. Reversal fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Just because it never occurred to you to investigate the reasons atomic matter and structure even exist in the universe doesn't mean other people haven't investigated it.

That's got almost nothing to do with it.

Fine tuning is the framework of fundamental physical constants taking on invariant universal values, which if they all didn't converge on these precise values would mean atomic matter and structure would never have existed. I would add that the universe is curiously finely balanced between net positive energy and net negative energy, and without being balanced on this razor's edge the universe either would have flown apart so fast atomic matter and large scale structure wouldn't have coalesced, or the universe would have collapsed back in on itself within fractions of a second.

Buzzword fallacies (energy balance, atomic matter, large scale structure,negative energy, positive energy).
Cliche fallacy.

The Universe is an unorganized dust cloud, Cyborg. No math required. No 'balance' required. There is no such thing as 'negative energy'.

 

[Cypress]

The Universe is an unorganized dust cloud!!!

If the universe were truly perfectly random and unorganized it would be at maximum entropy and thermal equilibrium. Which it is not.

There is no such thing as 'negative energy'!

At the scale of the universe the kinetic energy of mass is positive, while the gravitational potential energy is negative. The total energy of the system can't change, it can only transform to either kinetic or potential energy.

 

[Ichabod Stain]

Great. The atheists believe I am a holy roller, and the Bible thumpers believe I am an atheist .

I read the Bible responsibly. That means I respect literary style and don't read everything like it's historical biography or scientific reporting.

There is only a limited amount of history in the Bible, and no scientific reporting. The Bible is a vast collection of stories, parables, poetry, proverbs, mythology, metaphor, hyperbole, creeds, epistles. There is only a limited amount of historical narrative.

If you somehow don't believe that fundamental truths can be transmitted through mythology, story, poetry, proverb, parable then your going to have to explain why teachers of English and world literature made us read Uncle Tom's Cabin, Huck Finn, Shakespeare, the Iliad, Virgil, 1984, etc.

and you can't recognize what Jesus himself emphasizes.

you have poor comprehension.

 

[Into the Night]

If the universe were truly perfectly random and unorganized it would be at maximum entropy and thermal equilibrium. Which it is not.

The Universe is at maximum entropy. Thermally, it is just as random as the dust cloud.

At the scale of the universe the kinetic energy of mass is positive, while the gravitational potential energy is negative. The total energy of the system can't change, it can only transform to either kinetic or potential energy.

Buzzword fallacies (negative energy, system).
The 'system' is what you specify, literally.

If the 'system' is the Universe, it's entropy is maximum. There is no such thing as 'negative energy'. There is no such thing as 'gravitational potential energy'. Gravity is not energy at all. It looks to me like you don't understand what 'kinetic' or 'potential' actually mean. These two also seem to be just buzzwords to you.

 

[Into the Night]

and you can't recognize what Jesus himself emphasizes.

you have poor comprehension.

Inversion fallacy.

 

[Cypress]

The Universe is at maximum entropy!!!!

No it's not.
If you were correct that the universe is dispersed in a purely random state, it would be at thermal equilibrium and maximum entropy.

But it's not.

 

[Cypress]

Buzzword fallacies!!!

If the universe really was random and unorganized, we would never be able to make predictions about motion, momentum, and energy.

The fact that the physical universe is lawful is the reason we have been making those kind of predictions for 600 years

 

[Into the Night]

No it's not.

Yes it is. The Universe is a random dust cloud.

If you were correct that the universe is dispersed in a purely random state, it would be at thermal equilibrium and maximum entropy.

It is both.

 

[Into the Night]

If the universe really was random and unorganized, we would never be able to make predictions about motion, momentum, and energy.

...and you can't. It is not possible to predict the motion of all particles in the Universe. It is not possible to predict the quantum state of any particle. Mass is not energy. Obviously you don't know what 'entropy' means.

The fact that the physical universe is lawful is the reason we have been making those kind of predictions for 600 years

No law. The Universe is unorganized. It is a random dust cloud. It is not possible the motion of all the particles in the Universe.