Archaeology of the New Testament

[Into the Night]

So according to you, science is not attempting to discover reality as it actually is.

Reality is not defined by science, Cyborg. It is defined by philosophy.

Science is just arbitrarily categorizing things,

Science is not a categorization system.

but it's not giving us any real insight into the actual nature of physical reality.

There is no such thing as an absolute reality.

You atheists are surprisingly anti-science, and cynical about the whole scientific project to learn the truth about nature.

I am not an atheist.
Science is completely atheistic.
Science is not a project.
Science is not a college or university or school.
Science is not a Magick Word.

Science is a set of falsifiable theories.

The periodic table is one of the greatest achievements in the history of science.

Science is not a table.

Not because it is arbitrary collection of alphabetical symbols on a table.

It is an arbitrary collection of alphabetical symbols on a table.
Man created the table.
Man created the symbols.
Man assigned the symbols.

The Universe is not an atom.
The Universe is unorganized.

It's famous for being our representation of the orderly organization of the electrical and nuclear properties of the atomic world.

Man created the model of the atom.

The Universe is not an atom.
The Universe is unorganized.

 

[Into the Night]

Nah!

Then go find out what 'uni-' means in Universe.
Or...remain illiterate.

Your choice.

 

[Into the Night]

Derp.
Derp.

Evasion. Answer the question put to you.

 

[Into the Night]

Derp.

Derp.

So you too want to remain illiterate.

 

[Into the Night]

I'm not talking about things man has done. Man didn't make water or the chemical compound that is water. Man didn't make atoms, molecules, protons, neutrons, etc.

Man created the model for the atom.
Man created the concept of a molecule.
Man created the model of the proton.
Man created the model of the neutron.

 

[Into the Night]

This is all that matters. I gave example after example of flaws in the design of the universe,

The Universe is not designed. It is unorganized.

Earth and life on Earth and, for you, none are convincing because you aren't interested in seeing anything except what you want to see,

EVERYONE sees what they want to see. You are no exception.

which is a lawful, rational and organized design of everything and that design, whether you admit it or not, is the fairytale being that is the center of your religious beliefs.

The Bible has no fairies in it.
The Universe is unorganized. It has no 'law'.

You explain away the many design flaws just as you explain away,

How do you know they are 'flaws'?

in your mind, all of the contradictions in the Bible

What contradictions?

and the fact that the behavior of your particular religious sky wizard is anything but as described.

There are no sky wizards in the Bible.

 

[Into the Night]

Which humans do you believe have been on the planet for hundreds of thousands of years?

I don't even know what this means.

The question is straightforward. You apparently have trouble with English and the point he made by asking the question.

Do you want their names and locations?

That would work.

Correct and, as you already know, not all "Internet" was the same.

All the internet uses the same protocols. It is all the same.
The internet is full of useless gunk that people like you grab and use as 'Universal Truth'.

Your word games won't work, Void.

 

[ZenMode]

Man created the model for the atom.
Man created the concept of a molecule.
Man created the model of the proton.
Man created the model of the neutron.

All irrelevant to this conversation.

 

[ZenMode]

The Universe is not designed. It is unorganized.

EVERYONE sees what they want to see. You are no exception.

The Bible has no fairies in it.
The Universe is unorganized. It has no 'law'.

How do you know they are 'flaws'?

What contradictions?

There are no sky wizards in the Bible.

 

[Into the Night]

Explain precisely why religious belief requires the universe to be perfect and flawless,

The Universe is unorganized.

and why it has to accord specifically with your definition of perfection.

He's arrogant. I guess he thinks he's God.

Also, explain exactly why your definition of 'perfection' is the correct one.

He apparently believes he's God.

You seemed to think black holes are a flaw in the universe.

Depends on who you're speaking to. In some countries, the phrase is very insulting.

We don't know enough about black holes to jump to declarative statements like that. It's possible the gravitational energy of black holes play an integral role in the net energy balance of the universe.

There is no 'net energy balance of the Universe'.

The Universe is unorganized.

Rational agency, an eternal logos, a universal spirit, et al. implies some kind of higher consciousness that is beyond human understanding.

So you are an agnostic. You believe in a god, you just can't describe its character.
You just seem to be lost and incoherent about several important points:

The Universe has no law.
The Universe is unorganized.
The Universe has no known boundaries.

Yet you try to give it something it isn't.

None of that really has anything to do with fine tuning as cosmologists and astronomers discuss it.

Omniscience fallacy. You don't get to speak for everyone. You are not God.

You're not operating at the deepest level of reality.

Buzzword fallacy. Go learn what 'reality' means.

That is where the curious convergence of the universal physical constants

Man created mathematics.
Man created every single theory of science.
Man created every single measurement system.
Man created natural constants in various equations. Their purpose is to convert a relation to our units of measurement.

and the net energy balance of the universe

There is no 'net energy balance of the Universe'.
The Universe is unorganized.

is balanced on a razors edge to allow complex matter to exist.

Buzzword fallacy (complex matter).
Cliche fallacy.

As for life, anyone who had taken college level cellular biology and neuroscience classes is flabbergasted by the elegance and irreducible complexity of cells, neurons, and information-bearing molecules like DNA.

You don't get to speak for everyone. You only get to speak for you. Omniscience fallacy.

I need you to explain exactly why religious belief requires the human body to be perfect, ideal, and flawless, in accord with your definition of perfection.

He apparently believes he is God.

I'm basing all my inferences on physics and abductive logic.

You deny physics.
You deny logic.

The only question is which inference is more reasonable:

The Universe is not 'inference'.
The Universe is unorganized.

That the material and rational universe somehow came from the immaterial, inanimate, and irrational.

Buzzword fallacies (rational, universe, immaterial, inanimate, irrational).
Try English. It works better.

Or that the rational universe could only be caused the rational.

Buzzword fallacies (rational, universe).
Try English. It works better.

 

[ZenMode]

The question is straightforward. You apparently have trouble with English and the point he made by asking the question.

That would work.

So dumb ..... #TheySeeMeTrollin'

All the internet uses the same protocols. It is all the same.
The internet is full of useless gunk that people like you grab and use as 'Universal Truth'.

Not universal truth. Best available information which, in the case, comes from the national museum of natural history.

Something you already knew ......

Your word games won't work, Void.

Perfect since I'm not playing any.

 

[Into the Night]

99.99999 percent of the time, any discussion of humans on this forum is about our species homo sapiens, and it is so manifestly self evident nobody bothers to ask about it or play word games.

But you play word games.
So do most Democrats. So do a few Republicans.

Anyone who reads National Geographic, popular science articles, books has been aware for decades that the evidence is homo sapiens first evolved a few hundred thousand years ago.

National Geographic magazine was founded 1888. It is not a few hundred thousand years old.
Popular Science magazine was founded in 1872. It is not a few hundred thousand years old.
Paper does not last a few hundred thousand years.

You don't know what happened a few hundred thousand years ago.

 

[Into the Night]

Religious beliefs require only that you've been convinced of a specific sky wizard.

Nope. Religions do not require ANY wizard. Religions do not require any god or gods either.

All religions are based on some initial circular argument (by itself not a fallacy). ALL other arguments stem from that initial circular argument. The other name of a circular argument is the Argument of Faith.

ALL religions require faith. Indeed, all theories, including theories of science begin as circular arguments.
A theory of science is falsifiable. That means the theory itself can be tested to see if it's false.

No theory can ever be proven True.
Proofs only exist in closed functional systems like mathematics or logic.

The Bible has no sky wizard in it.

I never said anything about perfection. Never even used perfection.

DON'T TRY TO DENY YOUR OWN POSTS!

YOU claim that your creator rationally and lawfully designed the universe down to the molecular level and, in order to maintain that belief, you ignore or explain away all of the flaws in your creators designs. I listed some, but I could list more.

Again, you demand perfection, in accordance to your own perception of what 'perfection' is.
You are not God, fella.

You explain away the fact that 99.99999999999% percent of the universe in uninhabitable in a standard "Christian" way, which is implying that your God created the Earth to be special, with the clear message being that your God created the Earth for his creation, mankind, so that he could have some kind of relationship with his creation.

You desire no relationship with your children? Do you demand that children have no relationship with their parents?

Never used perfection.

DON'T TRY TO DENY YOUR OWN POSTS!

Just more "explaining away", just like you do with all of the Biblical contradictions and mistakes.

What 'Biblical contradictions'? What 'mistakes'?
Void argument fallacy.

This is how religious people maintain faith.

ALL religions are based on faith. Even yours.

Right and YOU are claiming that consciousness intentionally micro-designed the universe, down to the atomic level....while ignoring all of the terrible design flaws that exist....which you either ignore or explain away (see black holes and "we don't know enough")

It ALL has to do with fine tuning! Every single example does. In your world of faith, your God/creator designed a universe that is 99.9999999999% uninhabitable in order to have a relationship with his creation - man. And, part of that fine tuning, your god intentionally made humans eyes backwards, made their primary light source cancer-causing, gave us too many teeth, a flawed spine and leg design and put us on a planet rife with design flaws that will kill his creation by the billions, over time.

No one gets out of this life alive, Void.

DNA that is prone to mutation resulting in things like autism and Downs Syndrome.

You aren't perfect either.

Religious belief doesn't require anything except faith and, in this case, seeing what you want to see and explaining away what is inconvenient to your beliefs, something you have shown to be GREAT at doing!

ALL religions are based on faith, even yours.

Like I've said over and over, it's far more honest to say "I don't know" than manufacture fairytale creatures.

There are no fairies in the Bible.

Do you want me to AGAIN list all of the irrational design decisions made by your creator.....So you can explain them away....again?

Go learn what 'irrational' means. Buzzword fallacy.
Who are you to define 'perfection'?
Who are you to call something a 'flaw'?

You are not God, fella.

 

[Into the Night]

All irrelevant to this conversation.

Fallacy fallacy. Argument of the Stone fallacy. Denial of the conversation.

It is quite relevant. He is claiming that the Universe was 'designed' by pointing to atoms and the periodic table. He thinks God created the periodic table and the models we use for atoms and molecules.

Man created these models AND designed that table.

 

[Into the Night]

So dumb ..... #TheySeeMeTrollin'

Try English.

Not universal truth.

YARP. I wasn't talking about Universal Truth here. I was talking about the internet.
Pivot fallacy.

Best available information which, in the case, comes from the national museum of natural history.

Not information. The National Museum of natural history was not around a few hundred thousand years ago.
False authority fallacy.

Something you already knew ......

Perfect since I'm not playing any.

You don't know what happened a few hundred thousand years ago.

 

[ZenMode]

Nope. Religions do not require ANY wizard. Religions do not require any god or gods either.

All religions are based on some initial circular argument (by itself not a fallacy). ALL other arguments stem from that initial circular argument. The other name of a circular argument is the Argument of Faith.

ALL religions require faith. Indeed, all theories, including theories of science begin as circular arguments.
A theory of science is falsifiable. That means the theory itself can be tested to see if it's false.

No theory can ever be proven True.
Proofs only exist in closed functional systems like mathematics or logic.

The Bible has no sky wizard in it.

DON'T TRY TO DENY YOUR OWN POSTS!

Again, you demand perfection, in accordance to your own perception of what 'perfection' is.
You are not God, fella.

You desire no relationship with your children? Do you demand that children have no relationship with their parents?

DON'T TRY TO DENY YOUR OWN POSTS!

What 'Biblical contradictions'? What 'mistakes'?
Void argument fallacy.

ALL religions are based on faith. Even yours.

No one gets out of this life alive, Void.

You aren't perfect either.

ALL religions are based on faith, even yours.

There are no fairies in the Bible.

Go learn what 'irrational' means. Buzzword fallacy.
Who are you to define 'perfection'?
Who are you to call something a 'flaw'?

You are not God, fella.

Basically all of this post exemplifies the reason why I give empty responses to you. Your game is all an evasion game. There's no such thing as reality, there's no such thing as facts, there's no such thing as XXX. This is what you do. You don't contribute anything but contrarianism to any conversation.

 

[ZenMode]

Try English.

YARP. I wasn't talking about Universal Truth here. I was talking about the internet.
Pivot fallacy.

Not information. The National Museum of natural history was not around a few hundred thousand years ago.
False authority fallacy.

You don't know what happened a few hundred thousand years ago.

See my previous post about evasion and being nothing more than a contrarian. You contribute nothing to conversations except acting as a roadblock an attempting to derail.

@Cypress and I are having a discussion. It's a discussion based on beliefs and available information and what is more or less likely to be true. All you want to do is come in with your stupid contrarian bullshit, which contributes nothing to any conversation.

There is a 100% chance that you do not live your life according to your evasive and contrarian stupidity you put on display on this forum.

Expect more "derp"s going forward because I am not engaging in your bullshit.

 

[ZenMode]

Fallacy fallacy. Argument of the Stone fallacy. Denial of the conversation.

It is quite relevant. He is claiming that the Universe was 'designed' by pointing to atoms and the periodic table. He thinks God created the periodic table and the models we use for atoms and molecules.

Man created these models AND designed that table.

Derp.
Derp.
Derp.

 

[Into the Night]

Basically all of this post exemplifies the reason why I give empty responses to you.

Argument of the Stone fallacy.

Your game is all an evasion game.

Inversion fallacy.

There's no such thing as reality,

There certainly is. You just don't know what the word means.

there's no such thing as facts,

There certainly is. You just don't know what the word means.

there's no such thing as XXX.

There certainly is.
https://www.amazon.com/Triple-XXX-ANTONIO-LONGNECKS-12-Ounce/dp/B001IW1VP2
There are also XXX sized shirts and other clothing.

This is what you do. You don't contribute anything but contrarianism to any conversation.

Inversion fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

See my previous post about evasion and being nothing more than a contrarian. You contribute nothing to conversations except acting as a roadblock an attempting to derail.

Inversion fallacy.

@Cypress and I are having a discussion. It's a discussion based on beliefs and available information and what is more or less likely to be true. All you want to do is come in with your stupid contrarian bullshit, which contributes nothing to any conversation.

Inversion fallacy. Argument of the Stone fallacy.

There is a 100% chance that you do not live your life according to your evasive and contrarian stupidity you put on display on this forum.

Argument of the Stone fallacy.

Expect more "derp"s going forward because I am not engaging in your bullshit.

Argument of the Stone fallacy. Bulverism fallacy.