Archaeology of the New Testament

[ZenMode]

Still demanding perfection? You are not God.

Nope.

Anyone that has young kids knows that they are going to get hurt. They're going to fall and hit their head, scrape their knees, etc. There's a difference between letting norms play out and, as a parent, throwing razor blades all over the floor in their play area, which what your God did in a number of way.

 

[ZenMode]

False dichotomy fallacy.

Science is not mathematics.
Science is completely atheistic. It does not care whether a god or gods exist or not.
Mathematics is completely atheistic. It does not care whether a god or gods exist or not.
Science is not religion. You cannot claim your religion is 'science'.

Mantra 40a.

Evasion. Answer the question put to you.

"Your speculation is not knowledge, Void. It is mere speculation.

You don't know how long humans have been around."

Which one of these statements is the question you want me to answer?

 

[ZenMode]

Irrelevance fallacy. Answer the question put to you.

It's not irrelevant. It's part of what structures the conversation. Cypress has his claims/opinions/thoughts and my responses are largely based on those claims/opinions/thoughts.

I'm not going to engage in a conversation with Cypress based on the belief that he's an atheist.

 

[IBDaMann]

Omniscience?

Yes, you are asserting omniscience, but you are not omniscient. Your assertion is dismissed.

One is that you have no intellectual curiosity and have never in your life learned about the history of mankind.

I presume you are talking about your asserted omniscience ... that you read on the internet and are regurgitating here.

By the way, you are referring to pre-history, yes? You really mean prehistoric humans, yes?

So, how do you pretend to know anything about prehistoric humans? Is it that you read it on the internet so it must be true?

 

[Into the Night]

Nope.

Anyone that has young kids knows that they are going to get hurt. They're going to fall and hit their head, scrape their knees, etc.

Okay so far...

There's a difference between letting norms play out and, as a parent, throwing razor blades all over the floor in their play area,

So you blame parents for every little thing that allows their kids to get hurt. You consider it 'throwing razor blades on the floor'.

Extreme argument fallacy.

which what your God did in a number of way.

Really??? I see no razor blades all over the floor, the street, or anywhere on Earth. Maybe in a razor blade factory it might happen, but they clean it up when it does.

God is not a forklift accident.

 

[Into the Night]

It's not irrelevant. It's part of what structures the conversation.

Irrelevance is not a conversation. It is irrelevance.

Cypress has his claims/opinions/thoughts

So?

and my responses are largely based on those claims/opinions/thoughts.

No. They are based on your fundamentalist religion.

I'm not going to engage in a conversation with Cypress based on the belief that he's an atheist.

He is not an atheist. I never claimed he was. He thinks he is a Christian, but he denies the Bible.

You are not an atheist. I never claimed you were. You are a fundamentalist religious fanatic.

 

[Into the Night]

"Your speculation is not knowledge, Void. It is mere speculation.

You don't know how long humans have been around."

Which one of these statements is the question you want me to answer?

Evasion. Answer the question put to you.

 

[IBDaMann]

The point is we don't exist on earth in a vacuum.

Yes, we exist on earth, which is in a vacuum. Are you telling me that you never knew this?

We are intimately connected to the cosmos and to the other planetary bodies.

Earth has no connection to anything.

What caused the laws of physics is a philosophical or theological question.

What caused your deity to exist is a philosophical or theological question. Do you have an answer?

 

[ZenMode]

Really??? I see no razor blades all over the floor, the street, or anywhere on Earth.

Tell me you aren't taking the conversation seriously without telling me you aren't taking it seriously.

Void. Don't be dumb.

 

[ZenMode]

Evasion. Answer the question put to you.

"Your speculation is not knowledge, Void. It is mere speculation.

You don't know how long humans have been around."

Which one of these statements is the question you want me to answer?

 

[ZenMode]

Irrelevance is not a conversation. It is irrelevance.

So?

No. They are based on your fundamentalist religion.

He is not an atheist. I never claimed he was. He thinks he is a Christian, but he denies the Bible.

You are not an atheist. I never claimed you were. You are a fundamentalist religious fanatic.

Aaaaaaagain.... his opinion is that his god micro-designed the universe and that opinion is the basis of our discussion about the claimed flaws in that design.

 

[Into the Night]

Tell me you aren't taking the conversation seriously without telling me you aren't taking it seriously.

Void. Don't be dumb.

Wups. You told me you aren't taking the conversation seriously.

 

[Into the Night]

"Your speculation is not knowledge, Void. It is mere speculation.

You don't know how long humans have been around."

Which one of these statements is the question you want me to answer?

Okay. You have lost context completely (again). You apparently never could answer the question put to you.

 

[Into the Night]

Aaaaaaagain.... his opinion is that his god micro-designed the universe and that opinion is the basis of our discussion about the claimed flaws in that design.

Irrelevance fallacy. The only one claiming 'flaws in the Universe' is YOU.

 

[Into the Night]

1) We need UV radiation to derive Vitamin D in our body.

Only a narrow sub-band called UV-a.

2) UV radiation has many other health and ecological benefits.

That it does. UV light is what creates the ozone layer. UV-b light, when absorbed by oxygen converts that oxygen to ozone. UV-c light, when absorbed by ozone, converts that ozone to oxygen.

No UV-c light reaches the surface of Earth. It's only surface source is arc welding and certain pieces of specialized equipment.
Only a little UV-b light reaches the surface. Most is absorbed by oxygen. As the ozone layer builds each day, harsh UV-b will no longer reach the surface. Exposure to this light can cause sunburn. The symptoms of this exposure typically appear several hours after exposure.

UV-a light normally reaches the surface. This can cause plastics to polymerize, and causes skin to tan. These frequencies do not cause sunburn or cancer. A few rare people can see UV-a light. I happen to be one of them. Bees, hummingbirds, and many other critters can also see UV-a light.

3) It was our fault for depleting the ozone layer which helped protect against UV damage.

It is not possible to destroy the ozone layer, even if we wanted to.

4) We evolved as primates in the African forests. We were never supposed to spend extensive periods in direct sunlight.

So you deny the Bible once again. You believe in the Church of Evolution.

5) Once again, you are demanding that our lives be made ideal, flawless, perfect,

He doesn't what 'ideal', 'flawless', and 'perfect' even mean. He just claims he wants them.

and that everything be made for the express purpose of human comfort and convenience, irrespective of the biological, ecological, and physical needs of everything else in the universe. That is not a convincing argument.

Both of you are stuck in limited thinking, considering only this life that we live now.

These high levels of melanin in dark skin provide substantial protection from UV damage.

Did you know a black person can get sunburned? Yup. Happens all the time!

It was a free choice of homo sapiens to migrate to northern latitudes where we lost some of our melanin.

Yet another teaching in the Church of Evolution.

Made possible by fine tuning of the razor's edge balance

No razor.
Cliche fallacy.

of the fundamental parameters of physical reality, and the net zero balance of energy.

Man created natural constant.
Man create mathematics.
There is no such thing as 'physical reality'. Go learn what 'reality' means.
There is no such thing as 'net zero balance of energy'.
Buzzword fallacies.

 

[Cypress]

Anything. A god/creator would have every option available. The sun could have been designed to not radiate UV that causes cancer. )

1) We need UV radiation to derive Vitamin D and a range of other health benefits.
2) Earth's ecosystems derive benefits from solar UV radiation.
3) It's human's fault that the Ozone layer and it's UV protection properties was degraded.
4) We come from hominids that live in the African forests and were never intended to spend extensive periods in direct sunlight.
5) You are operating from the assumption that everything about the universe should be expected to provide convenience, comfort, safety to humans. That our lives should be flawless (your word), ideal, perfect. That is not a convincing argument. That is subjective and self centered opinon.

Human skin could have been designed to inherently repel UV.

We were. The black skinned early African humans we came from had high levels of melanin in their dark skin, affording them substantial amounts of UV protection.
It was a free choice of humans to migrate to northern latitudes where we lost some of the protective melanin in our skin.

Yep, it's pretty amazing.

The fine tuning of the fundamental physical parameters of the universe are balanced on the razor's edge allowing for complex atomic matter.

Nope... first you answer my question:

Again, you're missing the point. Why would a god, who created a universe and planet SPECIFICALLY for one type of primate, design the universe, planet and primate in such a way that just existing outside is deadly?

Explain that.

I do not accept the premise of your question that all religious traditions require that people believe everything in the universe was supposed to exist specifically for the comfort, convenience, and safety of humans - and to ensure we have flawless, ideal, perfect lives. It's simply not true that this is a universal belief of all religious tradition.

It sounds like you are angry about something someone told you in a Christian Sunday school.

As for me, I marvel at the universe, at DNA, at fine tuning, at cellular biology and am gobsmacked that it exists at all.

 

[Cypress]

Did you know a black person can get sunburned? Yup. Happens all the time!

I stated that melanin provides substantial protection, not perfect protection.

Almost all American blacks are of mixed European and African ancestry due to 400 years of racial mixing.

Sub-Saharan black Africans tend to have darker skin and more melanin.

It's actually preposterous that black holes, sunburns, floods, wisdom teeth are being discussed as proofs negating religious doctrine, and supporting atheist doctrine.

 

[ZenMode]

1) We need UV radiation to derive Vitamin D and a range of other health benefits.

Only because your God designed it that way. Humans also have to ingest Vitamin C because, unlike other mammals, we can't synthesize our own vitamin C.

Most mammals (including dogs, cats, cows, mice, and goats) and most birds, reptiles, and amphibians can synthesize their own vitamin C. They accomplish this via the enzyme L-gulonolactone oxidase (GULO), which converts glucose into ascorbic acid in the liver or kidneys.

2) Earth's ecosystems derive benefits from solar UV radiation.

Not because it HAS to. Because it was designed that way.

3) It's human's fault that the Ozone layer and it's UV protection properties was degraded.

Which wouldn't matter if humans were naturally resistant to UV. We aren't BY DESIGN. Why? Make make our primary light source deadly?

4) We come from hominids that live in the African forests and were never intended to spend extensive periods in direct sunlight.
5) You are operating from the assumption that everything about the universe should be expected to provide convenience, comfort, safety to humans. That our lives should be flawless (your word), ideal, perfect. That is not a convincing argument. That is subjective and self centered opinon.

We were. The black skinned early African humans we came from had high levels of melanin in their dark skin, affording them substantial amounts of UV protection.

Great, why weren't we designed to stay dark skinned so our primary light source isn't deadly?

It was a free choice of humans to migrate to northern latitudes where we lost some of the protective melanin in our skin.

There's no reason light skinned people couldn't be immune to UV.....if we had been DESIGNED that way by the being that had EVERY option available.

The fine tuning of the fundamental physical parameters of the universe are balanced on the razor's edge allowing for complex atomic matter.

Right, so your God fine tuned molecules but fucked over humans - the entire reason the universe was created. Come on. You aren't even trying at this point.

I do not accept the premise of your question that all religious traditions require that people believe everything in the universe was supposed to exist specifically for the comfort, convenience, and safety of humans - and to ensure we have flawless, ideal, perfect lives. It's simply not true that this is a universal belief of all religious tradition.

Again, not ALL things, but some obvious things like the sun not causing cancer, the Earth having massive faults, etc.

It sounds like you are angry about something someone told you in a Christian Sunday school.

As for me, I marvel at the universe, at DNA, at fine tuning, at cellular biology and am gobsmacked that it exists at all.

I also marvel at all of it.

 

[Cypress]

Only because your God designed it that way. Humans also have to ingest Vitamin C because, unlike other mammals, we can't synthesize our own vitamin C.

Most mammals (including dogs, cats, cows, mice, and goats) and most birds, reptiles, and amphibians can synthesize their own vitamin C. They accomplish this via the enzyme L-gulonolactone oxidase (GULO), which converts glucose into ascorbic acid in the liver or kidneys.

Not because it HAS to. Because it was designed that way.

Which wouldn't matter if humans were naturally resistant to UV. We aren't BY DESIGN. Why? Make make our primary light source deadly?

Great, why weren't we designed to stay dark skinned so our primary light source isn't deadly?

There's no reason light skinned people couldn't be immune to UV.....if we had been DESIGNED that way by the being that had EVERY option available.

Right, so your God fine tuned molecules but fucked over humans - the entire reason the universe was created. Come on. You aren't even trying at this point.

Again, not ALL things, but some obvious things like the sun not causing cancer, the Earth having massive faults, etc.

I also marvel at all of it.

The fact that humans get sun burns, that a few of us get skin cancer, and that people in flood plains are at risk of property damage or bodily harm is not at all a convincing reason to conclude religious belief is wrong, and atheistic belief is right.

I still have no idea why you think humans are entitled to live in a flawless (your word), perfect, risk-free world. That is not sound deductive logic. It's just subjective opinion shrouded in self-centered self interest.

The universe is the way it is. Awe inspiring, beautiful, unfathomable.
There is no train of thought that leads me to conclude that everything which exists should exist for the purpose of maximum human comfort, convenience, and safety.

Even the Bible doesn't say God intended to make everything about the universe perfect for humans. Genesis 1 says God observed his creation and said it was 'good'. Not perfect, not flawless, not ideal.

If there is a providential creator who created a universe with objective meaning and purpose, my guess is that love and freedom is the ultimate purpose of human existence, and that is where we look for meaning. I don't think the ultimate purpose was to ensure sunburns and floods never, ever happen.

 

[ZenMode]

The fact that humans get sun burns, that a few of us get skin cancer, and that people in flood plains are at risk of property damage or bodily harm is not at all a convincing reason to conclude religious belief is wrong, and atheistic belief is right.

I still have no idea why you think humans are entitled to live in a flawless (your word), perfect, risk-free world. That is not sound deductive logic. It's just subjective opinion shrouded in self-centered self interest.

The universe is the way it is. Awe inspiring, beautiful, unfathomable.
There is no train of thought that leads me to conclude that everything which exists should exist for the purpose of maximum human comfort, convenience, and safety.

Even the Bible doesn't say God intended to make everything about the universe perfect for humans. Genesis 1 says God observed his creation and said it was 'good'. Not perfect, not flawless, not ideal.

If there is a providential creator who created a universe with objective meaning and purpose, my guess is that love and freedom is the ultimate purpose of human existence, and that is where we look for meaning. I don't think the ultimate purpose was to ensure sunburns and floods never, ever happen.

You are seeing what you want to see and prioritizing what you want prioritizing and then explaining away whatever is needed to maintain your views. You see this finely tuned universe, down to the microscopic level, that proves your god created it, but when obvious flaws, that show how un-finely tuned the universe, Earth and mankind actually are, it's all downplayed and explained away.

You are seeing what you want to see. It's all just confirmation bias.