Archaeology of the New Testament

[Into the Night]

You sound a lot like @ZenMode, and share a lot of his beliefs.

I am not ZenMode. I am also a Christian. Neither of you believe the Bible at all.

While my comments are more similar to the beliefs of Albert Einstein and other preeminent scientists.

Name dropping.
You don't get to speak for everyone. You only get to speak for you.

The only thing you apparently believe is a string of nonsense words strung together in a chant.

 

[Into the Night]

Nope. I had no part in creating the universe or any of his contents, however, I understand the concept of a flaw and am able to recognize it when I see it.

YARP. The 'flaws' you claim YOU created.

 

[Into the Night]

Einstein also didn't believe in a personal god found in religions and was not religious.

Einstein was essentially an atheist.

He was not part of your religion and indeed he denounced your religion.

 

[Into the Night]

I know that and have written numerous times here that Einstein was a Pantheist who thought the rational intelligibility of the universe was astonishing and pointed to something marvelous.

No. Einstein was essentially an atheist.

The rationality of the universe is what we've been discussing for 500 posts.

Nonsense statement. Try English. Go learn what 'rationality' means and where to use this word.

You are quite similar to IntoTheNight in that you both believe the universe is unorganized, random,

Because it is.

and that the natural laws and universal constants are arbitrary constructions of the human mind and are not objectively real properties of the cosmos.

There is no 'universal natural law'.
There is no 'universal constant'.

That is profoundly anti-science.

Inversion fallacy. You can't blame your mathematics or science illiteracy on me or anybody else.

 

[Cypress]

The best explanation for YOU, because you WANT to believe in a conscious creator. That belief is 100% speculation.

My inference is based on pure abstractive logic. For these questions all we have in our tool box is logic and reason. Science doesn't provide explanations. Science provides descriptions.

You seem reticent to provide the logic you are using to say why the best explanation for the cause of the rational is the irrational.

As I've pointed out many times, there are flaws in the design of the universe, earth and man.

"Flawed" is a subjective term that isn't defined and can be molded to fit anyone's preconceived bias.

The universal vector field we named 'gravity' and the universal physical constants are precisely defined using the pure logic of mathematics.

Give me legitimate and precise examples of how the universe is genuinely unorganized and random.
Your son's bedroom, your eye's retina, or your knee joints don't count as universal properties of the cosmos. In fact at the scale of the universe they are totally inconsequential.

 

[Into the Night]

Which it is.... even excluding the ongoing attempts to smuggle in a creator.

Where is he smuggling a creator into? What government makes it illegal to smuggle creators?

The universe speaks for itself.

The Universe is not sentient.

Despite the forces, like gravity, that impact the behavior of objects in the universe, the universe is still highly disorganized.

This part is true.

I can say that the electricity that runs through our house is marvelous

A wonderful piece of engineering, that.

and the way water just appears when I turn on the faucet is astonishing,

Another wonderful piece of engineering.

but that doesn't make my sons room any less of a disaster.

Maybe you should talk with your son.

And, again, even if you believe it is organized, that doesn't mean there's a creator.

Then what 'organized it'?

The Universe is, of course, unorganized.

 

[Into the Night]

You haven't explained how your worldview is the best explanation:

He doesn't need to. His worldview is his alone. He doesn't need or even can force it upon anybody else. Go learn what 'real' means.

that a rational and lawful universe is caused by the irrational and inanimate.

Nonsense statement. Go learn English.

Explain what is disorganized.

The Universe. RQAA.

Your son's bedroom doesn't count.

The Universe is not his son's bedroom. He never claimed it was.

At the scale we are talking about - the cosmos - neither do your wisdom teeth or knees.

YARP

I don't think you realize how many things have to go right and how much organization, in terms of the laws, principles, and universal constants, there has to be for you to have an electromagnetic current.

There is no 'universal law'.
There is no such thing as a 'universal constant'.
There is no 'universal principle'.
There is no 'universal electric current'.

An incredible number of physical principles, laws, and universal constants had to converge on the edge of the proverbial razor blade for atomic matter, like the water molecule, to exist.

Cliche fallacy.
There is no 'universal principle'.
There is no 'universal law'.
There is no such thing as a 'universal constant'.

All I'm saying is that the best explanation for the cause of the rational and lawful is something rational.

Nonsense statement. You chant isn't even English.

You have sufficient information right now to provisionally choose if it's more logical to infer whether the rational can only come from the rational, or if it makes more sense that the rational was caused by the irrational.

Nonsense chant. Go learn English.

 

[Into the Night]

The best explanation for YOU, because you WANT to believe in a conscious creator.

So?

That belief is 100% speculation.

No. It is his religion. Just like your religion is your religion.

As I've pointed out many times, there are flaws in the design of the universe, earth and man.

YOU created the 'flaws'.
Now you claim the Universe is designed?? That Earth and Man was designed??

Which is it, dude??

 

[Into the Night]

My inference is based on pure abstractive logic. For these questions all we have in our tool box is logic and reason.

Magick Words (pure absractive logic, tool box, logic, reason). Buzzword fallacies.
Random words strung together is not logic or reason. Mindless chanting is not logic or reason.

Science doesn't provide explanations. Science provides descriptions.

Science a set of falsifiable theories.
A theory is an explanatory argument. This holds whether a theory is a scientific one or not.
Science is not descriptions.

You seem reticent to provide the logic you are using to say why the best explanation for the cause of the rational is the irrational.

Nonsense chant.

"Flawed" is a subjective term that isn't defined and can be molded to fit anyone's preconceived bias.

Partially true. A 'flaw' is a deviation from what is 'normal'. What is 'normal' is based on personal opinion.
He created the 'flaws'.

The universal vector field we named 'gravity' and the universal physical constants are precisely defined using the pure logic of mathematics.

Math error. A vector is not a field.
There is no 'universal vector field'. There is no 'universal field'.
There are no 'universal physical constants'.
Mathematics is not logic.
Logic is not mathematics.
Buzzword fallacies. Go learn English.

 

[Cypress]

He doesn't need to. His worldview is his alone. He doesn't need or even can force it upon anybody else. Go learn what 'real' means.

Nonsense statement. Go learn English.

The Universe. RQAA.

The Universe is not his son's bedroom. He never claimed it was.

YARP

There is no 'universal law'.
There is no such thing as a 'universal constant'.
There is no 'universal principle'.
There is no 'universal electric current'.

Cliche fallacy.
There is no 'universal principle'.
There is no 'universal law'.
There is no such thing as a 'universal constant'.


Nonsense statement. You chant isn't even English.

Nonsense chant. Go learn English.

^ Gibberish

 

[Cypress]

Magick Words (pure absractive logic, tool box, logic, reason). Buzzword fallacies.
Random words strung together is not logic or reason. Mindless chanting is not logic or reason.

Science a set of falsifiable theories.
A theory is an explanatory argument. This holds whether a theory is a scientific one or not.
Science is not descriptions.

Nonsense chant.

Partially true. A 'flaw' is a deviation from what is 'normal'. What is 'normal' is based on personal opinion.
He created the 'flaws'.

Math error. A vector is not a field.
There is no 'universal vector field'. There is no 'universal field'.
There are no 'universal physical constants'.
Mathematics is not logic.
Logic is not mathematics.
Buzzword fallacies. Go learn English.

^ Gibberish

 

[Cypress]

A vector is not a field!!

 

[Into the Night]

^ Gibberish

^ Gibberish

Inversion fallacy.
A vector is not a field. Math error.
A vector is not calculus. Math error.
A scalar is not a field. Math error.
A scalar is not calculus. Math error.

 

[ZenMode]

YARP. The 'flaws' you claim YOU created.

I didn't create them. I noticed them. You want to deny them, for reasons that are obvious.

 

[ZenMode]

YOU created the 'flaws'.
Now you claim the Universe is designed?? That Earth and Man was designed??

Which is it, dude??

I noticed the flaws. I didn't create them.

By pointing out the flaws, I'm pointing out that there was no designed/creator. An actual, conscious creator, who is concerned about microscopic details, wouldn't make such obvious design errors.

 

[IBDaMann]

I'm insinuating that a designer/creator, who is interested in microscopic details, wouldn't be interested in the very fine details one minute and then turn around a make such obvious mistakes. That just doesn't make sense. In your world, your God designed his elements to fit neatly into a man-made, color-coded table.....oh, but also gave his PRIZE creation, man, a spine and knees that are designed for animals that walk in your legs, not two. He made the eyes of his prize creation backwards so every single human has a blind spot in their vision. He gave the ability to regrow limbs to other creatures...but not his prize creation. He's concerned about a table of elements, but forgot to rationally design DNA, so his prize creation is plagued by genetic defects.

I'll ask again...why?

Valid question. I'm sure Cypress has a rational answer.

I don't accept the premise of your question that the human body needs to be flawless, and the everything in the universe has to be setup for the benefit and convenience of humans according to your arbitrary standards you specify

That wasn't his question. His premise was " a designer/creator, who is interested in microscopic details, wouldn't be interested in the very fine details one minute and then turn around a make such obvious mistakes" and his question was "Why did that happen?"

Answer that question ... and also answer how your deity came to exist. You currently have two substantive questions you are EVADING.

Ok one last try and then I will just accept that you have no interest in an honest discussion....

So, are you going to address the question of why your God would create an entire universe, that is 99.999999999% uninhabitable, and create a single planet to house one single creature with which to have a relationship.....and then make that creatures:
- eyes backward
- spine and knees designed for mammals that walk on four legs
- hearing and sight that degrades over time
- DNA susceptible to mutations
- breathing and eating through the same tube, making the basic act of staying alive (eating) inherently dangerous and sometimes deadly

All are valid questions. It would appear that Cypress is not discussing in good faith, and you recognize that right away from your own EVASION of every science question posed to you.

Keep pressing Cypress to answer as you should have answered the greenhouse effect questions.

 

[Into the Night]

I didn't create them. I noticed them.

YOU created the 'flaws' you claim.

You want to deny them, for reasons that are obvious.

I don't deny them. YOU created them.

 

[James]

My greatest problem with the Time the Romans colonized Judea is it is virtually impossible to find just a basic historical interpretation of the history of that period without being inundated with folk who walked on water, raised other folk from the dead, or ascended into the clouds with the help of qatarairways.com...

Why are folk here still swallowing this ruling class turd...Yuck!

 

[Cypress]

Answer that question!!!!

Already did. Until Zenmode read an article by some atheist complaining about the flaws in our retina, in our knees, in joints, he didn't actually know there was anything seriously wrong.

Before having read obscure articles by atheists he marveled at the pleasure he got from his vision while watching a sunset or from his body when playing golf or tennis. It never occurred to him anything was seriously wrong.

We can deduce at least two things from this. 1) The word 'flawed' is entirely subjective, and anyone can mold the word to fit their preconceived biases; and 2) Zenmode's experience and intuition of vision and physical activity trumps whatever he read in an atheist article.

 

[Melchizedek=Tecumseh]

Already did. Until Zenmode read an article by some atheist complaining about the flaws in our retina, in our knees, in joints, he didn't actually know there was anything seriously wrong.

Before having read obscure articles by atheists he marveled at the pleasure he got from his vision while watching a sunset or from his body when playing golf or tennis. It never occurred to him anything was seriously wrong.

We can deduce at least two things from this. 1) The word 'flawed' is entirely subjective, and anyone can mold the word to fit their preconceived biases; and 2) Zenmode's experience and intuition of vision and physical activity trumps whatever he read in an atheist article.

What I see from Cypress is you see Intelligent design of the Universe.
You just haven't found the Connection between the creation of the universe and the Man on the cross!