Archaeology of the New Testament

[Cypress]

I told you countless times the Physical universe is a reaction to Satan entering YHWH's space causing the Big Bang!
Spirit universe predates the Physical universe

It's important to get people on record saying if they think the best inference for a rational, lawful, logical universe is that it was caused by something irrational, inanimate, and immaterial.

That type of discussion can only occur in the context of math, logic, and physics.

 

[ZenMode]

The beliefs of Albert Einstein carry weight.

It is extremely noteworthy that Einstein believed the universe is organized and rational, while you believe the universe is random and unorganized.

Again, the belief of organized and rational, as you are using it, clearly implies and organizer and a conscious intent to make it "rational".

Comparing your belief to Einstein's belief on something as fundamental to science as the rational intelligibility of the universe is highly revealing.

I'm comparing my beliefs to your beliefs.

You claimed for months, along with your friend IntoTheNight that the universe is random, unorganized, that universal laws and principles are just arbitrary constructions of the human mind.

Yes. The universe is a disaster of random pieces of stone, a trillion stars that will all eventually burn out, some random mixture of solid but not really solid planets and an Earth that has killed off 99% of all species of animal that has ever existed. And the one being that your creator put extra importance in creating, is full of flaws....all of which your creator could have excluded.

That is profoundly anti-science, and directly contradicts the most fundamental belief underlying the scientific enterprise.

Nope. Anti science would be denying gravity or the existence of atoms. You're trying to overlay opinion as science to smuggle God into the equation.

So now you are back tracking and insinuating it is correct to believe the universe actually is organized, mathematically rational, governed by universal principles expressed as the pure logic of math.

The universe has forces at play. Gravity, magnetism, etc. That is the science I'm agreeing exists. The universe is highly disorganized.

Good, so I was right these last six months.

Now, explain to me if it is logical to infer that the best explanation for the rational, lawful, logical is that it was somehow caused by the irrational, inanimate, and immaterial.

I'm not going to attempt to rationalize your opinion which I disagree with.

The universe is governed by forces that man, after the fact, attempts to explain. Outside of those forces, like gravity and magnetism, the universe is clearly unorganized and full of obvious flaws, many of which are highly detrimental to the ONE creature that your God put here to have a relationship with.

 

[Cypress]

Again, the belief of organized and rational, as you are using it, clearly implies and organizer and a conscious intent to make it "rational".

I'm comparing my beliefs to your beliefs.

Yes. The universe is a disaster of random pieces of stone, a trillion stars that will all eventually burn out, some random mixture of solid but not really solid planets and an Earth that has killed off 99% of all species of animal that has ever existed. And the one being that your creator put extra importance in creating, is full of flaws....all of which your creator could have excluded.

Nope. Anti science would be denying gravity or the existence of atoms. You're trying to overlay opinion as science to smuggle God into the equation.

Im asking you to take a stand on a very simple question of logic which doesn't require knowledge of physics or math. I'm not even asking up you to state what is true. I'm just asking you a simple question of abstractive logic.

Do you believe the most logical explanation for the cause of a rational, lawful universe is something irrational, inanimate, and immaterial, or not?

The universe has forces at play. Gravity, magnetism, etc. That is the science I'm agreeing exists. The universe is highly disorganized.

If the universe is highly disorganized the scientific enterprise would not be possible.

See Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, James Clerk Maxwell, etc. for reference.

The universe is governed by forces that man, after the fact, attempts to explain. Outside of those forces, like gravity and magnetism,

You're trying to modify what you previously stated. You stated everything is disorganized. You didn't make exceptions for gravity or magnetism.

​

I don't see any organization in the universe.

the universe is clearly unorganized and full of obvious flaws,

Compared to the universal fundamental gravitational, nuclear, and electromagnetic forces, compared to universal laws of conservation, compared to the universal laws of mechanics, compared to the universal physical constants of nature, any flaws in your wisdom teeth or knee joints are infinitesimal and inconsequential. You are being self absorbed and self centered.

many of which are highly detrimental to the ONE creature that your God put here to have a relationship with.

I haven't mentioned the God of Abraham.

The fact that you keep returning time after time to a cartoon of a sky wizard in a white robe suggests you are still hung up on something that happened to you at the church your parents dragged you to, rather than answering the deeper philosophical questions about the origins of the cosmos

 

[Melchizedek=Tecumseh]

It's important to get people on record saying if they think the best inference for a rational, lawful, logical universe is that it was caused by something irrational, inanimate, and immaterial.

That type of discussion can only occur in the context of math, logic, and physics.

Did you notice the name of this thread???? It opens the door to the Spirit side!! I merely, told Spiritual history, that effected the creation of the physical universe!

 

[Melchizedek=Tecumseh]

Im asking you to take a stand on a very simple question of logic which doesn't require knowledge of physics or math. I'm not even asking up you to state what is true. I'm just asking you a simple question of abstractive logic.

Do you believe the most logical explanation for the cause of a rational, lawful universe is something irrational, inanimate, and immaterial, or not?

If the universe is highly disorganized the scientific enterprise would not be possible.

See Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, James Clerk Maxwell, etc. for reference.

You're trying to modify what you previously stated. You stated everything is disorganized. You didn't make exceptions for gravity or magnetism.

​

Compared to the universal fundamental gravitational, nuclear, and electromagnetic forces, compared to universal laws of conservation, compared to the universal laws of mechanics, compared to the universal physical constants of nature, any flaws in your wisdom teeth or knee joints are infinitesimal and inconsequential. You are being self absorbed and self centered.


I haven't mentioned the God of Abraham.

The fact that you keep returning time after time to a cartoon of a sky wizard in a white robe suggests you are still hung up on something that happened to you at the church your parents dragged you to, rather than answering the deeper philosophical questions about the origins of the cosmos

I agree! Organized Religion ,turns Spiritual reality,to Babel!

 

[Into the Night]

so dumb.

Inversion fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

it is a theory of science.

The Theory of the Big Bang is not a theory of science. Science has NO theories of past unobserved events. They are not falsifiable.

 

[Into the Night]

You didn't answer the question. Did the universal vector field we named 'gravity' which is manifested as an inverse square mathmatical relationship exist billions of years before humans "observed" it, or not?

Math error. A vector is not a field.
There is no such thing as a 'universal vector field'.
Math was created by Man.
The inverse square law was created by Man.

Also, explain why the universe has predictable, mathmatically rational, organized "patterns".

The Universe is unorganized. No pattern.

Any answer that invokes a "that's just the way it is!" type of response is both an intellectually lazy and unsatisfying answer

Too bad. The Universe is unorganized.

 

[Into the Night]

It's important to get people on record saying if they think the best inference for a rational, lawful, logical universe is that it was caused by something irrational, inanimate, and immaterial.

Magick Words (record, inference, best, rational, lawful, logic, irrational, inanimate, immaterial). Buzzword fallacies. Try English. Don't mindlessly chant.

That type of discussion can only occur in the context of math, logic, and physics.

You deny math.
You deny logic.
You deny science, and therefore physics.

 

[Into the Night]

Again, the belief of organized and rational, as you are using it, clearly implies and organizer and a conscious intent to make it "rational".

I'm comparing my beliefs to your beliefs.

Yes. The universe is a disaster of random pieces of stone, a trillion stars that will all eventually burn out, some random mixture of solid but not really solid planets and an Earth that has killed off 99% of all species of animal that has ever existed. And the one being that your creator put extra importance in creating, is full of flaws....all of which your creator could have excluded.

Nope. Anti science would be denying gravity or the existence of atoms. You're trying to overlay opinion as science to smuggle God into the equation.

The universe has forces at play. Gravity, magnetism, etc. That is the science I'm agreeing exists. The universe is highly disorganized.

I'm not going to attempt to rationalize your opinion which I disagree with.

The universe is governed by forces that man, after the fact, attempts to explain. Outside of those forces, like gravity and magnetism, the universe is clearly unorganized and full of obvious flaws, many of which are highly detrimental to the ONE creature that your God put here to have a relationship with.

The 'flaws' are YOUR creation. You can't blame them on the Universe.

 

[Into the Night]

Im asking you to take a stand on a very simple question of logic which doesn't require knowledge of physics or math. I'm not even asking up you to state what is true. I'm just asking you a simple question of abstractive logic.

You deny logic. Buzzword fallacy.
You deny physics. Buzzword fallacy.
You deny math. Buzzword fallacy.

Do you believe the most logical explanation for the cause of a rational, lawful universe is something irrational, inanimate, and immaterial, or not?

Non-English portion. Stop mindlessly chanting.

If the universe is highly disorganized the scientific enterprise would not be possible.

Science is not an 'enterprise'. The Universe is unorganized.

See Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, James Clerk Maxwell, etc. for reference.

These are men, each of which CREATED the theories of science they are known for.

You're trying to modify what you previously stated. You stated everything is disorganized.

The Universe is unorganized.

You didn't make exceptions for gravity or magnetism.

Magick Words (gravity, magnetism). Try English. Neither gravity nor magnetism is the Universe.

​

Compared to the universal fundamental gravitational, nuclear, and electromagnetic forces, compared to universal laws of conservation, compared to the universal laws of mechanics, compared to the universal physical constants of nature, any flaws in your wisdom teeth or knee joints are infinitesimal and inconsequential. You are being self absorbed and self centered.

There is no such thing as 'universal fundamental forces'.
MAN created the term 'gravity'.
MAN created the term 'nuclear'.
MAN created the term 'electromagnetic'.
There is no such thing as 'universal law of conservation'.
There is no such thing as 'universal law of mechanics'.
There is no such thing as 'universal physical constants of nature'.

I haven't mentioned the God of Abraham.

The fact that you keep returning time after time to a cartoon of a sky wizard in a white robe suggests you are still hung up on something that happened to you at the church your parents dragged you to, rather than answering the deeper philosophical questions about the origins of the cosmos

How do you know the Universe has an origin?

 

[Into the Night]

Did you notice the name of this thread???? It opens the door to the Spirit side!! I merely, told Spiritual history, that effected the creation of the physical universe!

Go learn what the 'uni-' in Universe means.

 

[Into the Night]

I agree! Organized Religion ,turns Spiritual reality,to Babel!

Magick words (Organized Religion, Spiritual reality, Babel).
Buzzword fallacies.

 

[Cypress]

The Universe is unorganized!

Magick Words (gravity, magnetism)! Try English.

There is no such thing as 'universal fundamental forces'!

You sound a lot like @ZenMode, and share a lot of his beliefs.

While my comments are more similar to the beliefs of Albert Einstein and other preeminent scientists.