It's important to get people on record saying if they think the best inference for a rational, lawful, logical universe is that it was caused by something irrational, inanimate, and immaterial.
Again, the belief of organized and rational, as you are using it, clearly implies and organizer and a conscious intent to make it "rational".
I'm comparing my beliefs to your beliefs.
Yes. The universe is a disaster of random pieces of stone, a trillion stars that will all eventually burn out, some random mixture of solid but not really solid planets and an Earth that has killed off 99% of all species of animal that has ever existed. And the one being that your creator put extra importance in creating, is full of flaws....all of which your creator could have excluded.
Nope. Anti science would be denying gravity or the existence of atoms. You're trying to overlay opinion as science to smuggle God into the equation.
The universe has forces at play. Gravity, magnetism, etc. That is the science I'm agreeing exists. The universe is highly disorganized.
I'm not going to attempt to rationalize your opinion which I disagree with.
Im asking you to take a stand on a very simple question of logic which doesn't require knowledge of physics or math. I'm not even asking up you to state what is true. I'm just asking you a simple question of abstractive logic.
If the universe is highly disorganized the scientific enterprise would not be possible.
You're trying to modify what you previously stated. You stated everything is disorganized. You didn't make exceptions for gravity or magnetism.
Compared to the universal fundamental gravitational, nuclear, and electromagnetic forces, compared to universal laws of conservation, compared to the universal laws of mechanics, compared to the universal physical constants of nature, any flaws in your wisdom teeth or knee joints are infinitesimal and inconsequential. You are being self absorbed and self centered.
I haven't mentioned the God of Abraham.
Did you notice the name of this thread???? It opens the door to the Spirit side!! I merely, told Spiritual history, that effected the creation of the physical universe!
I agree! Organized Religion ,turns Spiritual reality,to Babel!Im asking you to take a stand on a very simple question of logic which doesn't require knowledge of physics or math. I'm not even asking up you to state what is true. I'm just asking you a simple question of abstractive logic.
Do you believe the most logical explanation for the cause of a rational, lawful universe is something irrational, inanimate, and immaterial, or not?
If the universe is highly disorganized the scientific enterprise would not be possible.
See Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, James Clerk Maxwell, etc. for reference.
You're trying to modify what you previously stated. You stated everything is disorganized. You didn't make exceptions for gravity or magnetism.
Compared to the universal fundamental gravitational, nuclear, and electromagnetic forces, compared to universal laws of conservation, compared to the universal laws of mechanics, compared to the universal physical constants of nature, any flaws in your wisdom teeth or knee joints are infinitesimal and inconsequential. You are being self absorbed and self centered.
I haven't mentioned the God of Abraham.
The fact that you keep returning time after time to a cartoon of a sky wizard in a white robe suggests you are still hung up on something that happened to you at the church your parents dragged you to, rather than answering the deeper philosophical questions about the origins of the cosmos
Inversion fallacy.
The Theory of the Big Bang is not a theory of science. Science has NO theories of past unobserved events. They are not falsifiable.
Math error. A vector is not a field.
The Universe is unorganized. No pattern.
Too bad. The Universe is unorganized.
Magick Words (record, inference, best, rational, lawful, logic, irrational, inanimate, immaterial). Buzzword fallacies. Try English. Don't mindlessly chant.
You deny math.
The 'flaws' are YOUR creation. You can't blame them on the Universe.
You deny logic. Buzzword fallacy.
Non-English portion. Stop mindlessly chanting.
Science is not an 'enterprise'. The Universe is unorganized.
These are men, each of which CREATED the theories of science they are known for.
The Universe is unorganized.
Magick Words (gravity, magnetism). Try English. Neither gravity nor magnetism is the Universe.
There is no such thing as 'universal fundamental forces'.
Compared to the universal fundamental gravitational, nuclear, and electromagnetic forces, compared to universal laws of conservation, compared to the universal laws of mechanics, compared to the universal physical constants of nature, any flaws in your wisdom teeth or knee joints are infinitesimal and inconsequential. You are being self absorbed and self centered.
How do you know the Universe has an origin?
Go learn what the 'uni-' in Universe means.
Magick words (Organized Religion, Spiritual reality, Babel).
You sound a lot like @ZenMode, and share a lot of his beliefs.
Nope. I had no part in creating the universe or any of his contents, however, I understand the concept of a flaw and am able to recognize it when I see it.
Einstein also didn't believe in a personal god found in religions and was not religious.
I know that and have written numerous times here that Einstein was a Pantheist who thought the rational intelligibility of the universe was astonishing and pointed to something marvelous.
Which it is.... even excluding the ongoing attempts to smuggle in a creator.
yes.
The universe speaks for itself. Despite the forces, like gravity, that impact the behavior of objects in the universe, the universe is still highly disorganized.
You haven't explained how your worldview is the best explanation: that a rational and lawful universe is caused by the irrational and inanimate.
Explain what is disorganized. Your son's bedroom doesn't count. At the scale we are talking about - the cosmos - neither do your wisdom teeth or knees.
I don't think you realize how many things have to go right and how much organization, in terms of the laws, principles, and universal constants, there has to be for you to have an electromagnetic current.
An incredible number of physical principles, laws, and universal constants had to converge on the edge of the proverbial razor blade for atomic matter, like the water molecule, to exist.
That has nothing to do with the universal laws, properties, and constants of the universe.
All I'm saying is that the best explanation for the cause of the rational and lawful is something rational.
The best explanation for YOU, because you WANT to believe in a conscious creator. That belief is 100% speculation. As I've pointed out many times, there are flaws in the design of the universe, earth and man.