Everyone understands that Socialism is not Communism, right?

Yakuda said:
They have no authority for depts of education, energy, transportation to name a few. There is no authority to take money from me to pay retirement benefits to older people. On top of that taxing income is evil.
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The Constitution does not allow tax for those things? General welfare clause?
 
Jarod said:
The Constitution does not allow tax for those things? General welfare clause?
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General Welfare Clause does not give them generic power over every aspect of our lives, specific powers are listed that the government has, Education is not one of them and the Bill of Rights is clear, if it is not listed as a power the government has it is reserved for the States or The People...
 
Damocles said:
General Welfare Clause does not give them generic power over every aspect of our lives, specific powers are listed that the government has, Education is not one of them and the Bill of Rights is clear, if it is not listed as a power the government has it is reserved for the States or The People...
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You do not believe education promotes the General Welfare of the people?

"The terms 'general Welfare' were doubtless intended to signify more than was expressed or imported in those which preceded; otherwise numerous exigencies incident to the affairs of a Nation would have been left without a provision. The phrase is as comprehensive as any that could have been used." Alexander Hamilton
 
Jarod said:
You do not believe education promotes the General Welfare of the people?
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I do not believe that the power was given to the Federal Government and I also believe that the "General Welfare Clause" was never meant to include powers that were not reserved for the Federal Government, hence Amendment 10 exists, telling you that such powers are not granted under this clause. Specifically, the "General Welfare" is listed as the reason the Federal Government is granted the specific powers it is granted, it is not a power unto itself and does not grant any extra powers that were not enumerated....

There is a reason we have the 10th, it is for this purpose. So even lawyers can understand that the power of Government is limited to the things that were specified.
 
Jarod said:
The Constitution does not allow tax for those things? General welfare clause?
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Are you stupid? Thats a serious question. What did I say about taxes you shit eating asshole?

So the govt can do whatever it pleases under the guise of "general welfare"? Why not have the govt provide food for everybody? Thats providing for the general welfare. How about provide a house for everyone? You are stupid arent you?
 
Jarod said:
You do not believe education promotes the General Welfare of the people?

"The terms 'general Welfare' were doubtless intended to signify more than was expressed or imported in those which preceded; otherwise numerous exigencies incident to the affairs of a Nation would have been left without a provision. The phrase is as comprehensive as any that could have been used." Alexander Hamilton
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Education does promote the general welfare, now explain why the govt has to be involved with it.
 
Damocles said:
I do not believe that the power was given to the Federal Government and I also believe that the "General Welfare Clause" was never meant to include powers that were not reserved for the Federal Government, hence Amendment 10 exists, telling you that such powers are not granted under this clause. Specifically, the "General Welfare" is listed as the reason the Federal Government is granted the specific powers it is granted, it is not a power unto itself and does not grant any extra powers that were not enumerated....

There is a reason we have the 10th, it is for this purpose. So even lawyers can understand that the power of Government is limited to the things that were specified.
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Not according to Hamilton or the Supreme Court.
 
Jarod said:
Not according to Hamilton or the Supreme Court.
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Hamilton never said that "General Welfare" was a power, you are simply lying. I know that lawyers love to do that, because they think nobody will ever check... but I read the Federalist Papers.

Amendment 10 would not exist if "General Welfare" was a power... the States would not ratify the constitution until they were ensured that their powers and rights were protected.

There is a reason that the Department of Education doesn't dip its toes into education... It simply gives money to schools for food...
 
Yakuda said:
Are you stupid? Thats a serious question. What did I say about taxes you shit eating asshole?

So the govt can do whatever it pleases under the guise of "general welfare"? Why not have the govt provide food for everybody? Thats providing for the general welfare. How about provide a house for everyone? You are stupid arent you?
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Providing food for everyone would be Constitutional, but might not be sound policy.
 
Yakuda said:
Education does promote the general welfare, now explain why the govt has to be involved with it.
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It does provide for the General Welfare, our society works better the more educated our people are. Individuals who are educated are healthier, more productive and happier than non educated people.
 
Jarod said:
Providing food for everyone would be Constitutional, but might not be sound policy.
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Where in the constitution does it say the govt must feed everyone? Please dont say general welfare clause. Thats asinine. If its the responsibility of the govt then its the govts obligation to do it. They arent are they? Fuck sound policy its its their authorized job. Oh thats right its not their authorized job.
 
Jarod said:
It does provide for the General Welfare, our society works better the more educated our people are. Individuals who are educated are healthier, more productive and happier than non educated people.
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You completely ignored this part "...now explain why the govt has to be involved with it." Try again dipshit
 
Jarod said:
It does provide for the General Welfare, our society works better the more educated our people are. Individuals who are educated are healthier, more productive and happier than non educated people.
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Jarod said:
It does provide for the General Welfare, our society works better the more educated our people are. Individuals who are educated are healthier, more productive and happier than non educated people.
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Well, you just excluded every modern day democrat in that post.
 
Yakuda said:
Where in the constitution does it say the govt must feed everyone? Please dont say general welfare clause. Thats asinine. If its the responsibility of the govt then its the govts obligation to do it. They arent are they? Fuck sound policy its its their authorized job. Oh thats right its not their authorized job.
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It does not say they must, but it is allowed to if they pass legislation. Because the Fed can provide for the general welfare.
 
Damocles said:
Hamilton never said that "General Welfare" was a power, you are simply lying. I know that lawyers love to do that, because they think nobody will ever check... but I read the Federalist Papers.

Amendment 10 would not exist if "General Welfare" was a power... the States would not ratify the constitution until they were ensured that their powers and rights were protected.

There is a reason that the Department of Education doesn't dip its toes into education... It simply gives money to schools for food...
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"The terms 'general Welfare' were doubtless intended to signify more than was expressed or imported in those which preceded; otherwise numerous exigencies incident to the affairs of a Nation would have been left without a provision. The phrase is as comprehensive as any that could have been used." Alexander Hamilton
 
Jarod said:
"The terms 'general Welfare' were doubtless intended to signify more than was expressed or imported in those which preceded; otherwise numerous exigencies incident to the affairs of a Nation would have been left without a provision. The phrase is as comprehensive as any that could have been used." Alexander Hamilton
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None of which says it is a power or grants more power to the government than those that were specifically enumerated and covered again by the 10th. You are again flat lying, deliberately trying to mislead because you want this to be a power. It is a reason that the government was granted the enumerated powers, the 10th tells us what we do with powers that were not listed.

Hamilton understood this as well, the constitution limits the powers of the government and specifies which powers they can bring to bear and how we treat other powers that are not listed. It is why there is a 10th Amendment.

The Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution states that any power not explicitly granted to the federal government, nor prohibited to the states, is reserved to the states or to the people. Ratified in 1791, it is the cornerstone of American federalism.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
 
Damocles said:
None of which says it is a power or grants more power to the government than those that were specifically enumerated and covered again by the 10th. You are again flat lying, deliberately trying to mislead because you want this to be a power. It is a reason that the government was granted the enumerated powers, the 10th tells us what we do with powers that were not listed.
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"more than was expressed or imported in those which preceded;"

The Supreme Court agreed with me.
 
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