Everyone understands that Socialism is not Communism, right?

[AProudLefty]

Right.

Which is you admitting the choices here are just opinion and there is no real way to judge the counterfactual.

So Terry thinks only pushing money up to corporations and oligarchs is good while a Dem Socialist thinks investing and pushing that money to the MC and below is better.

History strongly suggests pushing the money down and not up is what builds the most over all society wealth.

A society that helps itself is a successful society.

 

[QP!]

No. Capitalism is earned. Socialism is theft.

Greedy people, or not so greedy people, make a deal with other people for an economic exchange. That is a willing thing.

Socialists steal lollipops from babies then give them to other babies because they think that's "fair and equal."

A good example of a fully socialist society are many early Native/Indegnous societies.

What makes it theft to have the society agree to that structure but when Capitalist societies benefit from Military, Police, Roads, etc, that is not theft?

 

[Into the Night]

Obviously those are not working for the reasons I stated above. Though as you know they are still paid for by Capitalism. As far as your last sentence, we seem to have managed just fine until 1913.

I never said any such thing that LeftNut is claiming.

The nation still manages DESPITE the socialism. A great testimony to the wealth this nation has and the people that build it.

The people of the United States fought in two World Wars and won them both.
The people of the Colonies fought for and obtained their freedom from British rule, and created the United States.
The people of the United States fought a war against the CSA and won, eventually restoring those lost States to the Union and ending legal slavery.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Didn't you say there's greedy people?

Yes. That doesn't change in a Socialist society. In fact, I'd say Socialist societies breed far more of them.

Nope. For example, were the children willing participants?

Were the adults?

Nope. People pay into it (via taxes) so they're entitled to some of it.

People are FORCED to pay into it. That's what makes Socialism end up a dictatorship every time.

Curious, how do you propose that they be helped under the unfettered Capitalism?

I don't.

Poor people and children be damned.

In a Capitalist system, those with money can choose to help the poor and such, and they do. Groups and organizations can solicit donations. Carnegie choose to build libraries. Rockefeller built massive music halls. Churches and their members do that. It isn't as if it doesn't happen, it just doesn't happen because government takes money from the public by force and then redistributes it as government sees fit.

 

[AProudLefty]

I never said any such thing that LeftNut is claiming.

The nation still manages DESPITE the socialism. A great testimony to the wealth this nation has and the people that build it.

The people of the United States fought in two World Wars and won them both.
The people of the Colonies fought for and obtained their freedom from British rule, and created the United States.
The people of the United States fought a war against the CSA and won, eventually restoring those lost States to the Union and ending legal slavery.

What socialism? Buzzword fallacy.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The people of the United States fought in two World Wars and won them both.

The US only won one. The other one, the US was a mere participant, a Johnny Come Lately.

 

[Into the Night]

A good example of a fully socialist society are many early Native/Indegnous societies.

No, Kewpie. They are capitalists as well. Building their great nations for themselves.
Then DEMOCRATS came and took it all away.

What makes it theft to have the society agree to that structure but when Capitalist societies benefit from Military, Police, Roads, etc, that is not theft?

No, Kewpie. It is creating wealth.
Capitalists built every gun, bullet, accessory, and weapon system the military uses. They built the uniforms they wear.
Capitalists built every police car, built the computers and rescue gear that is in them, built the bodycam police wear, and built the police station itself.
Capitalists built every road. A road is wealth.

 

[Into the Night]

No, because it is for the common good. You can use them if you want to. Other roads are built for purposes like defense (the interstate highway system), for example. Again, a common good.

And every single one of them was built by capitalists.

 

[Into the Night]

What socialism? Buzzword fallacy.

You can't deny what you are, LeftNut.

 

[AProudLefty]

Yes. That doesn't change in a Socialist society. In fact, I'd say Socialist societies breed far more of them.

They do? Present papers if you can.

Were the adults?

Yep. What do you think unions are for?

People are FORCED to pay into it. That's what makes Socialism end up a dictatorship every time.

Forced how? In the USA?

I don't.

In a Capitalist system, those with money can choose to help the poor and such, and they do. Carnegie choose to build libraries. Rockefeller built massive music halls. Churches and their members do that. It isn't as if it doesn't happen, it just doesn't happen because government takes money from the public by force and then redistributes it as government sees fit.

You forgot that people pay into it via taxes (what the Parrot Boy calls theft). They expect a return.

 

[Into the Night]

The US only won one. The other one, the US was a mere participant, a Johnny Come Lately.

You don't think the US won WW2?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You don't think the US won WW2?

Yes, the US won WW 2. It didn't win WW 1. It was a participant.

 

[QP!]

Yes. That doesn't change in a Socialist society. In fact, I'd say Socialist societies breed far more of them.


Were the adults?


People are FORCED to pay into it. That's what makes Socialism end up a dictatorship every time.


I don't.

In a Capitalist system, those with money can choose to help the poor and such, and they do. Groups and organizations can solicit donations. Carnegie choose to build libraries. Rockefeller built massive music halls. Churches and their members do that. It isn't as if it doesn't happen, it just doesn't happen because government takes money from the public by force and then redistributes it as government sees fit.

People are forced to pay into a Capitalistic society. That's what makes it end up in Fascism or Kleptocracy every time!!!

 

[QP!]

No. Capitalism is earned. Socialism is theft.

Greedy people, or not so greedy people, make a deal with other people for an economic exchange. That is a willing thing.

Socialists steal lollipops from babies then give them to other babies because they think that's "fair and equal."

No Capitalism is theft based on gov't lobbying and grift. Socialism is giving back to the people instead of giving it away to corporations and Oligarchs who lobbied for it.

Greedy people use graft and lobbying to steal the fruits of others.

Capitalists convince the gov't via lobbying to just give them the money so the poor cannot afford the lollipop unless they save and but from the rfich.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

People are forced to pay into a Capitalistic society. That's what makes it end up in Fascism or Kleptocracy every time!!!

Fascism is Socialist and a Kleptocracy would have criminals running things like down in the 'hood.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

No Capitalism is theft based on gov't lobbying and grift. Socialism is giving back to the people instead of giving it away to corporations and Oligarchs who lobbied for it.

Greedy people use graft and lobbying to steal the fruits of others.

Capitalists convince the gov't via lobbying to just give them the money so the poor cannot afford the lollipop unless they save and but from the rfich.

Really? How does Capitalism steal? Socialism is chock-a-block with graft, corruption, and theft. It creates Oligarchs particularly when it is really virulent. Lobbying in a Capitalist society is simply those with sufficient money using some of it to petition the government more favorably than those without it.

Try explaining how you can make a society where everyone is altruistic and without greed.

 

[QP!]

Fascism is Socialist and a Kleptocracy would have criminals running things like down in the 'hood.

Kleptocracy and Corporate Democracy would have criminals like Trump and Orban and Putin running things like a military junta or dictatorship.

 

[countryboy]

Or, you tried to distract from the facts in your OP because obfuscation and distraction is the only way you can get a failed system past the people.

You tried to pretend that this piece is not a piece of the puzzle, because if people realize what you are trying to build they reject it...

Pretty much every post of yours tries to distract people rather than enlighten them. You wind up being what you want others to see in your "enemy".

As I said before, you row slowly to the waterfall, but you still deliberately and consistently point the boat in that direction and paddle...

Libs lie, people die. That's the way it's always been, and the way it will always be. That's why the latest gas lighting deception from the Democrats is claiming that any public service, fire, police, water, are all forms of socialism. When of course, nothing could be further from the truth. But there are probably enough young skulls full of mush to buy into it.

 

[QP!]

Really? How does Capitalism steal? Socialism is chock-a-block with graft, corruption, and theft. It creates Oligarchs particularly when it is really virulent.

Try explaining how you can make a society where everyone is altruistic and without greed.

Name one Capitalist society that has existed in the modern world that does not have FORCED redistribution from citizens?

 

[Into the Night]

Hence Socialist programs. Thank you. It isn't a theft. It aids it. It props it. Makes our country successful.

See above. You were talking about altruism. How about greed? That's human nature.

Socialism is based on theft of wealth.