CNN HAS FINALLY GREW A SPINE



They probably do have many more progressive/liberal/left wing people than conservative/right wing people because they need people smart enough to read, write, and come in out of the rain. You just don't get many of those people from the right.
 
Do you watch CNN? I did a google search and it said it had a couple of right leaning pundits. I don't know if they have their own shows or are just part of group panels.

So I'm just curious your thoughts. If one is used to seeing panels where people all share the same viewpoints (whether on the right or left) adding diverse voices could be a little surprising.
Punditry isn't news reporting. It's an application of it. This thread is mainly about this confusion.
 
Last edited:
Punditry isn't news reporting. It's an application of it. This thread is mainly about this confusion.
I said this was a separate question because I was asking about the claim that CNN is moving more and more to the right. That's where the post was coming from.
 
All journalistic organizations have truth as their goal and on the whole make reasonable efforts to report it. Otherwise they are not journalistic organizations. Your comment about "younger journalists" with their "lived experience" is gobbledegook. As for "younger journalists", they are rarely free agents. They work for a living in news organizations that provide customary standards for news reporting.
You obviously don't have to read this, and I'm not trying to fight you here but I am interested in your response to what they're saying about objectivity and neutrality. You may not agree with them, which is fine. But this is what I was speaking to.

Journalistic Objectivity Isn’t Realistic, Young Reporters Say​

“In reality, nothing and nobody is neutral.”
By Sara Li
March 6, 2020


Journalists spend a lot of time on Twitter these days. Like everyone else, they use the platform to share news stories, mundane details about their lives, and, in some cases, opinions about what’s going on in the world, including who they support for president. But some reporters, like the New York Times’s chief White House correspondent Peter Baker refrain from this approach. In a story published this week on how Times reporters try to remain "impartial," Baker said that he tries “hard not to take strong positions on public issues,” and declines to participate in elections at all. The veteran reporter’s comments sparked a pushback among journalists who suggested that voting is a civic duty and that these standards of neutrality are simply impossible to meet.


This question is particularly complicated in the Trump era. As Lewis Wallace, a trans reporter, put it in the 2017 "Medium" post that reportedly got him fired from Marketplace, “I can’t be neutral or centrist in a debate over my own humanity.” (Marketplace has maintained that its company ethics code requires staffers to keep their political views private.) How can we expect writers, especially those from marginalized communities, to refrain from taking a position on some of the most urgent and impactful issues of our times, including climate change, health care, and the mass incarceration of people of color? Journalists have an important role to play in politics, but they are not exempt from being affected by politics themselves.


Teen Vogue talked to nine journalists in their 20s and 30s about why they believe neutrality is an illusion, and how taking stances have made them stronger reporters — and citizens.


Emma Specter, culture writer for Vogue.com​

I've gotten the opportunity to write a lot of identity-driven stories over my career, but that's partly because my structural privilege affords me the ability to advocate for myself and have my identity seen as recognizable to those in power. When we talk about objectivity, more often than not, what we’re really talking about is privilege. Marginalized groups often can’t afford to stay “neutral” when their rights are on the line, so calls for neutrality often feel like an attempt to gatekeep the people whose voices are already sorely lacking from journalism — people of color, women, LGBTQ+ people, etc. — out of the profession entirely while anointing cis, white, straight, able-bodied men as the arbiters of professional ethics.

Kamrin Baker, editor in chief of​

The truth is not neutral. In this political climate, the truth is that people are being oppressed, harmed, and lied to by government leaders, and it is not far-out to speak on those facts.

Even more a part of this notion is the assumption that journalists, reporters, and editors are subhuman and expected to be on the periphery of the human experience. This assumption is dangerous and exclusionary, placing people on a level of objectivity that no one is capable of. Furthermore, it poses that journalists do not have the right to vote, donate to, campaign for, or speak their truth about a candidate who may have their best interests in mind. Journalists are still workers who need unions, health care, and equal pay. Journalists are still people of color, immigrants, and folks who need reproductive equity, freedom, and access to opportunity.

Journalists are still members of our American society. There is definitely an appropriate time to be an objective observer, but as long as journalists are transparent about their experience when disseminating information, there should be no shame in being equal parts human and fourth estate.



Jack Mirkinson, freelance writer and former deputy editor of Splinter​

I understand where the idea of political neutrality in journalism comes from. In theory, it's useful to have people who are "just reporting the facts," not weighing in on one side or another, etc. The problem is that, in reality, nothing and nobody is neutral. Look at any standard New York Times and Washington Post story about domestic or especially foreign politics. Look at the "analysis" that pours out of supposedly objective journalists all day on Twitter. Look at the questions people ask, the stories people choose to write. All of these things are inherently suffused with opinion and political judgment — they're just seen as acceptable forms of opinion to have for some reason. The only available conclusion to be reached is that striving for a mythical level of neutrality is self-defeating. It's also a form of inherently conservative journalism that can wind up masking the truth in its efforts to achieve objectivity.

The underlying notion that we have to defeat is that political engagement and journalistic rigor are somehow mutually exclusive. They aren't. Journalists who reject "neutrality" aren't propagandists. They're just more honest about where they're coming from.

Fortesa Latifi, freelance politics and health writer​

I don't think that the question is whether journalists should or should not be neutral; I think the question is what weight are we putting on marginalized journalists when we ask them to check their identity at the door of their reporting. It seems to me that it would add depth if a journalist could admit a certain issue affects them, like health care or immigration. We don’t live in bubbles and to pretend we do is dishonest. That being said, I don’t think most opinions need to be shared — it’s just unfair to ask marginalized journalists to leave their identities behind when reporting.

Luis Miranda, freelance politics writer​

Journalists are human beings with communities and biases and experiences. We can lie to ourselves and everyone else about it, but this myth only harms us and our profession. We must own up and be public about what we believe, not hide behind an image that we are perfect objectivity machines in our lives. Muckrakers are the heroes of our history, and they very explicitly took on corruption and corporations and exposed them. Recognizing what is wrong and pushing for the truth is journalism at its best, and fearing the loss of objectivity by making both sides equal, regardless of facts, is journalism at its worst. If we really want the truth, we must embrace who we are and question it. Accept our biases, but also accept that our sense of injustice isn't one of them. We must pick sides on issues if they are of great urgency, and must admit we make mistakes. We search the truth and that is a constant learning process, not a made-up objective mind frame.

Allegra Hobbs, staff writer for Study Hall​

There is no such thing as journalistic objectivity, and attempts to maintain it often result in reporting that is overly generous to the powerful. Asking journalists to have no opinions on the people or events they report on is asking them to suspend moral judgment, and I don’t think we should ask that of the press. It’s one thing to expect reporters to be open-minded in their approach, but asking them to be neutral in their approach isn’t just unreasonable but potentially harmful.


Iman Sultan, freelance politics and culture writer​

I think activism enforces my journalism. Often, especially in America, the media doesn't have the best relationship with communities of color or marginalized people who choose to fight back through protest and organizing. My politicization was rooted in how I faced racism my whole life as a woman of color, and as a Muslim who grew up after 9/11.

I don't think journalists have a responsibility, per se, to participate in politics. It's an individual choice. But ideas of objectivity are often white and ignore the history of ethnic media or enterprise reporting, which were connected to activists. Ida B. Wells, for example, was an investigative journalist and an activist.

Rebecca Long, freelance culture writer​

In this age of "fake news" and "alternative facts," the idea of journalistic neutrality is a really interesting one. I don't know if reporting "neutrally" on issues like climate change, for instance, is desirable or even possible. Climate change is real, but reporting on its existence isn't considered "neutral." Same with writing about vaccines or institutional racism. When our very reality is in question, reporting truthfully is often perceived as divisive or slanted, which makes being a writer extremely difficult. If "being neutral" means obscuring facts to make hard truths more palatable for readers, it isn't worth it to me.

Amy Beecham, freelance identity writer​

As a British person at a time of political division with Brexit, the rise of anti-Semitism, and continued Islamophobia (especially in the tabloid media), my writing and engagement have loudly condemned those attitudes. During the referendum and election, I wrote a lot about young people’s engagement with activism and politics.

For me, I think of it as a moral choice as much as a professional one. I understand the importance of impartiality, especially in reporting and news, even though it rarely materializes like that. When you’re in a position of privilege in society, you shouldn’t be neutral to what goes on, even if you’re not directly affected. To be a journalist with a platform and any kind of control over media narratives, I think it’s imperative to make certain calls, say what needs to [be] or what isn’t being said. There are so many gatekeepers within the media that marginalize important voices, so those of us that can be heard in any capacity should do everything we can to be heard, and pass the mic to others so that they can be too.
 
You obviously don't have to read this, and I'm not trying to fight you here but I am interested in your response to what they're saying about objectivity and neutrality. You may not agree with them, which is fine. But this is what I was speaking to.

Journalistic Objectivity Isn’t Realistic, Young Reporters Say​

“In reality, nothing and nobody is neutral.”
By Sara Li
March 6, 2020

Journalists spend a lot of time on Twitter these days. Like everyone else, they use the platform to share news stories, mundane details about their lives, and, in some cases, opinions about what’s going on in the world, incluwhite, straight, able-bodied men as the arbiters of professional ethics.

My response is I think it's the same confusion mentioned previously. Journalistic objectivity is realistic. It happens every day in the pages of newspapers and in news reporting elsewhere. Journalistic subjectivity also happens every day, typically in columns but also dressed up as
news stories found in mainly online political rags. So sources obviously matter. The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times differ politically but if you read them you'll find the news reporting could pretty much be substituted one for the other.
 
My response is I think it's the same confusion mentioned previously. Journalistic objectivity is realistic. It happens every day in the pages of newspapers and in news reporting elsewhere. Journalistic subjectivity also happens every day, typically in columns but also dressed up as
news stories found in mainly online political rags. So sources obviously matter. The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times differ politically but if you read them you'll find the news reporting could pretty much be substituted one for the other.
I understand what you are saying philosophically, but what the folks are talking about in that article is spilling over into the real world. And the New York Magazine article gets into how it played out at the NY Times.

This isn't some Fox News-MSNBC type internal battle going on. What the battle is about is more 'old school' type reporting vs younger people fighting that. And it's not an academic debate, it's very real.
 
I understand what you are saying philosophically, but what the folks are talking about in that article is spilling over into the real world. And the New York Magazine article gets into how it played out at the NY Times.

This isn't some Fox News-MSNBC type internal battle going on. What the battle is about is more 'old school' type reporting vs younger people fighting that. And it's not an academic debate, it's very real.
Cable news is mostly useless.
 
I understand what you are saying philosophically, but what the folks are talking about in that article is spilling over into the real world. And the New York Magazine article gets into how it played out at the NY Times.

This isn't some Fox News-MSNBC type internal battle going on. What the battle is about is more 'old school' type reporting vs younger people fighting that. And it's not an academic debate, it's very real.
My comment is about the real world. It's a world I've been in.
 
They probably do have many more progressive/liberal/left wing people than conservative/right wing people because they need people smart enough to read, write, and come in out of the rain. You just don't get many of those people from the right.

Is that so, Mr. Apisa?
 
200w.gif
My comment is about the real world. It's a world I've been in.

So you say.
 
My comment is about the real world. It's a world I've been in.
Fair enough, it's great to hear from someone on the inside so to speak.

But I'm still left not understanding the position towards these young journalists and their attitudes. Because what they're describing isn't abstract, nor is the battle inside the NY Times.
 
So does this validate the above claim that TV news coverage is owned and controlled by Democrats?

Yes, all news isn’t objective, never was, but to infer all journalists report with a partisan view is an over generalization
Not an over generalization, anchovies. Democrats and other leftists own and operate:
The New York Times.
The Los Angeles Times.
The Associated Press.
ABC
NBC
CBS
NPR
FOX
CNN
The Guardian
BBC
The Globe and Mail
The Toronto Star
CBC
CTV

...and many others.
 
This is a separate question as I don't watch cable news.

Someone ITT said CNN is moving more and more to the right. I did a double take on that. But I suppose understanding the context matters.

If a station went from zero right leaning voices to one, that could be considered moving to the right I suppose. If you add a couple that could be be considered more and more to the right.

Do you watch CNN? I did a google search and it said it had a couple of right leaning pundits. I don't know if they have their own shows or are just part of group panels.

So I'm just curious your thoughts. If one is used to seeing panels where people all share the same viewpoints (whether on the right or left) adding diverse voices could be a little surprising.
CNN is not moving to the right. It just seems that way since many Democrats are moving so far left and becoming radical.
 
Fair enough, it's great to hear from someone on the inside so to speak.

But I'm still left not understanding the position towards these young journalists and their attitudes. Because what they're describing isn't abstract, nor is the battle inside the NY Times.
What battle inside The New York Times? If you’re referring to Peter Baker he is both the paper’s chief WH correspondent and a periodic guest on MS NOW, two different hats, but I don’t believe there has been a showing that the paper’s WH news coverage has been affected by this. If anything, by Baker’s own acknowledgement the effect has been to mute him somewhat on MS NOW where he’s felt obliged to take a more neutral tone than he might otherwise.
 
Last edited:
What battle inside The New York Times? If you’re referring to Peter Baker he is both the paper’s chief WH correspondent and a periodic guest on MS NOW, two different hats, but I don’t believe there has been a showing that the paper’s WH news coverage has been affected by this. If anything, by Baker’s own acknowledgement the effect has been to mute him somewhat on MS NOW where he’s felt obliged to take a more neutral tone than he might otherwise.
This is the same article I posted earlier. It happens on this board, but I feel like we're having two different discussions.

I'm speaking about young journalists and them pushing back against what was a more traditional approach to objectivity and neutrality. And I posted this story about the New York Times because this is happening at the highest levels of journalism.

 
This is the same article I posted earlier. It happens on this board, but I feel like we're having two different discussions.

I'm speaking about young journalists and them pushing back against what was a more traditional approach to objectivity and neutrality. And I posted this story about the New York Times because this is happening at the highest levels of journalism.

The article is behind a paywall. As for your "young journalists", none of them as far as I could tell are employed as journalists.
 
Back
Top