A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.

[Jarod]

Are you stupid, hack? Because they don't want to get pregnant at the time.

Why don't they get tubal ligation, hack? Far less side effects than the pill - virtually no side effects in fact. So why don't most women choose to be sterilized?

Come on hack, you can be honest for once, it won't kill you.



Why do you think being stupid is effective?

OK, but they do realize, that they do not want children, at least, at that time. Why do they still have sex?

 

[Walt]

One reason people are choosing to have no or fewer kids is because our capitalist system has made it way to expensive, limited child care and healthcare.

Countries with lower fertility rates have more money to spend on educate and care for each child. That leads to growth. It is not all bad.

 

[Diogenes]

Countries with lower fertility rates have more money to spend on educate and care for each child. That leads to growth. It is not all bad.

Is that a fact?

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

This is a really random question which you don’t have to answer. It’s also weird because it’s about my mom but to try and make it less personal I’ll just use her as a proxy, so your response doesn’t have to about her alone.

By all accounts my mom is a strong woman. She’s educated (went to b-school and got her MBA), she was CFO of a real estate investment company for a period of time and she started her own retail gift shop.

She has an incredible eye for real estate and we’ve moved a lot, remodeling every time.

I’ve seen her make GC’s come into our home on two different occasions and you could tell they had an attitude (basically no woman is going to tell me what to do).

I’ve seen her make both of them literally like shiver. Pardon my French but they picked the wrong b*tch to F with. I can still vividly picture the 180 change in these guys after those confrontations.

I have a couple of lady friends who joke “I went to be your mom when I grow up” and “she’s such a bad*ss”.

But what got me thinking about this was listening to the tributes to Dolly Parton and how she basically never let herself be labeled. In interviews she was asked if she was a feminist I don’t believe she came out specifically and said she was but many argued she was by how she lived her life. (I’m not trying to make this about her but sharing what got me thinking about my mom.)

I have never heard my mom call herself a feminist or use what might be considered feminist rhetoric. To be clear, I’ve never heard her speak out against feminism. But she just didn’t speak in those terms.

Politically she hates Trump and isn’t a right-winger. At the same time she’s not a liberal and she will absolutely rail on San Francisco and California and told me she wants me to spread her ashes across Lake Tahoe and she hopes it violates a TRPA regulation. (TRPA, depending on your perspective, is the agency that either protects Lake Tahoe environmentally or prevents anything from being done and modernized.)

So she just can’t be put into a box either way.

My apologies for being so long winded but I am curious how someone like her might be viewed in more feminist circles. Would it be yeah, she’s doing her thing? Or more yeah she’s doing her thing but by not speaking out more she’s not advocating for change and that’s not a positive (and I don’t mean to imply there is only one feminist answer to this)

I'm not in any "feminist circles" so can't speak for those who are. To me your mom reminds me of a true Christian. She doesn't preach. She doesn't act like a victim or a martyr. She doesn't judge. She just does what she likes and lives her own truth. In other words, she's an example of a woman who successfully combines career and family and does both excellently. She had choices because of leaders like Gloria Steinem and Betty Friedan. She has used them wisely. Do you mind saying how old she is?

PS -- Lake Tahoe would be a wonderful place for your ashes. It's one of Earth's most beautiful places.

 

[cawacko]

I'm not in any "feminist circles" so can't speak for those who are. To me your mom reminds me of a true Christian. She doesn't preach. She doesn't act like a victim or a martyr. She doesn't judge. She just does what she likes and lives her own truth. In other words, she's an example of a woman who successfully combines career and family and does both excellently. She had choices because of leaders like Gloria Steinem and Betty Friedan. She has used them wisely. Do you mind saying how old she is?

PS -- Lake Tahoe would be a wonderful place for your ashes. It's one of Earth's most beautiful places.

I'm sure we've all heard these stories about our parents but talking to my Aunt and Uncle (after telling them about her making the male GC's cower), they were like 'she has always been that way'. (probably explains why I didn't win a lot of arguments with her as a kid)

My father was a professor. They didn't pay much but one of the perks was your spouse could go to school for free (that's when my Mom got her MBA; my sister and I were already born at that point). This was the late '70's, very early '80's.

I remember one thing my father said later (he taught graduate school real estate finance); he said outside your mother, basically the only women he taught were divorced.

Very different than today of course.

And yes, Lake Tahoe is her happy place. You're right, it's a beautiful place. My daughter is falling in love with it as well.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

I'm sure we've all heard these stories about our parents but talking to my Aunt and Uncle (after telling them about her making the male GC's cower), they were like 'she has always been that way'. (probably explains why I didn't win a lot of arguments with her as a kid)

My father was a professor. They didn't pay much but one of the perks was your spouse could go to school for free (that's when my Mom got her MBA; my sister and I were already born at that point). This was the late '70's, very early '80's.

I remember one thing my father said later (he taught graduate school real estate finance); he said outside your mother, basically the only women he taught were divorced.

Very different than today of course.

And yes, Lake Tahoe is her happy place. You're right, it's a beautiful place. My daughter is falling in love with it as well.

What a striking contrast between your upbringing situation and mine. We lived in a new development populated by transplants from other places, highly-educated men (most had PhDs) and stay-at-home moms. The zeitgeist was traditional that way. Only one neighbor woman I knew had an outside job -- our next-door neighbor, Mrs. A., who was the manager of a Holiday Inn. The gossipers snarked about her and how her husband "couildn't keep her at home where she belonged." She was also my mom's best friend. The next door neighbor mom on the other side had a BS degree in biology but didn't work outside the house; her husband was an older guy with a PhD, as was the husband of the other gal. Mrs. G. started a preschool at their church and taught there as well, once their kids were all in school full time. There was a bit of gossip about her as well but since she had a traditional female job it wasn't as bad as it was for Mrs. A., the manager. An interesting side note about Mrs. G. (the bio BS holder): Their two daughters, one my age and the other my sister's age, grew up to become veterinarians; the older one taught at (I think) Penn State as well. But their younger brother dropped out of college and is a Trump-worshipping RWNJ.

 

[Jerry Mathers]

This is a really random question which you don’t have to answer. It’s also weird because it’s about my mom but to try and make it less personal I’ll just use her as a proxy, so your response doesn’t have to about her alone.

By all accounts my mom is a strong woman. She’s educated (went to b-school and got her MBA), she was CFO of a real estate investment company for a period of time and she started her own retail gift shop.

She has an incredible eye for real estate and we’ve moved a lot, remodeling every time.

I’ve seen her make GC’s come into our home on two different occasions and you could tell they had an attitude (basically no woman is going to tell me what to do).

I’ve seen her make both of them literally like shiver. Pardon my French but they picked the wrong b*tch to F with. I can still vividly picture the 180 change in these guys after those confrontations.

I have a couple of lady friends who joke “I went to be your mom when I grow up” and “she’s such a bad*ss”.

But what got me thinking about this was listening to the tributes to Dolly Parton and how she basically never let herself be labeled. In interviews she was asked if she was a feminist I don’t believe she came out specifically and said she was but many argued she was by how she lived her life. (I’m not trying to make this about her but sharing what got me thinking about my mom.)

I have never heard my mom call herself a feminist or use what might be considered feminist rhetoric. To be clear, I’ve never heard her speak out against feminism. But she just didn’t speak in those terms.

Politically she hates Trump and isn’t a right-winger. At the same time she’s not a liberal and she will absolutely rail on San Francisco and California and told me she wants me to spread her ashes across Lake Tahoe and she hopes it violates a TRPA regulation. (TRPA, depending on your perspective, is the agency that either protects Lake Tahoe environmentally or prevents anything from being done and modernized.)

So she just can’t be put into a box either way.

My apologies for being so long winded but I am curious how someone like her might be viewed in more feminist circles. Would it be yeah, she’s doing her thing? Or more yeah she’s doing her thing but by not speaking out more she’s not advocating for change and that’s not a positive (and I don’t mean to imply there is only one feminist answer to this)

silence is violence.

not an ally.

to be hated.

 

[Jerry Mathers]

What a striking contrast between your upbringing situation and mine. We lived in a new development populated by transplants from other places, highly-educated men (most had PhDs) and stay-at-home moms. The zeitgeist was traditional that way. Only one neighbor woman I knew had an outside job -- our next-door neighbor, Mrs. A., who was the manager of a Holiday Inn. The gossipers snarked about her and how her husband "couildn't keep her at home where she belonged." She was also my mom's best friend. The next door neighbor mom on the other side had a BS degree in biology but didn't work outside the house; her husband was an older guy with a PhD, as was the husband of the other gal. Mrs. G. started a preschool at their church and taught there as well, once their kids were all in school full time. There was a bit of gossip about her as well but since she had a traditional female job it wasn't as bad as it was for Mrs. A., the manager. An interesting side note about Mrs. G. (the bio BS holder): Their two daughters, one my age and the other my sister's age, grew up to become veterinarians; the older one taught at (I think) Penn State as well. But their younger brother dropped out of college and is a Trump-worshipping RWNJ.

fighting the revolution.

Little Boxes
Malvina Reynolds
Little boxes on the hillside
Little boxes made of ticky-tacky
Little boxes on the hillside
Little boxes all the same

There's a pink one and a green one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same

And the people in the houses
All went to the university
Where they were put in boxes
And they came out all the same

And there's doctors and lawyers
And business executives
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same

And they all play on the golf course
And drink their martinis dry
And they all have pretty children
And the children go to school

And the children go to summer camp
And then to the university
Where they are put in boxes
And they come out all the same

And the boys go into business
And marry and raise a family
In boxes made of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same

There's a pink one and a green one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same

 

[Jerry Mathers]

brain dead mutant zombies.

 

[Jerry Mathers]

Unlike a lot of them she liked men.

she was a spook. weaponizing women.

feminism was always a CIA plot to destroy the west.

 

[cawacko]

What a striking contrast between your upbringing situation and mine. We lived in a new development populated by transplants from other places, highly-educated men (most had PhDs) and stay-at-home moms. The zeitgeist was traditional that way. Only one neighbor woman I knew had an outside job -- our next-door neighbor, Mrs. A., who was the manager of a Holiday Inn. The gossipers snarked about her and how her husband "couildn't keep her at home where she belonged." She was also my mom's best friend. The next door neighbor mom on the other side had a BS degree in biology but didn't work outside the house; her husband was an older guy with a PhD, as was the husband of the other gal. Mrs. G. started a preschool at their church and taught there as well, once their kids were all in school full time. There was a bit of gossip about her as well but since she had a traditional female job it wasn't as bad as it was for Mrs. A., the manager. An interesting side note about Mrs. G. (the bio BS holder): Their two daughters, one my age and the other my sister's age, grew up to become veterinarians; the older one taught at (I think) Penn State as well. But their younger brother dropped out of college and is a Trump-worshipping RWNJ.

That’s very interesting. My mom is 79 so she likely grew up in a similar environment when it came to women in the workplace.

I will say for her there were a number of years she did not “work”. And I put it in parentheses because I mean, she did not have an official job, but she was always entrepreneurial and she and my father moved many times and she created a lot of value and did really well at fixing up the homes that they lived in.

So you would hear these statistics about only X percent of executive leadership and companies being women and the numbers were accurate but I always wondered how many other women were out there like my mom who could easily be in one of those roles if they chose to.

 

[Jerry Mathers]

That’s very interesting. My mom is 79 so she likely grew up in a similar environment when it came to women in the workplace.

I will say for her there were a number of years she did not “work”. And I put it in parentheses because I mean, she did not have an official job, but she was always entrepreneurial and she and my father moved many times and she created a lot of value and did really well at fixing up the homes that they lived in.

So you would hear these statistics about only X percent of executive leadership and companies being women and the numbers were accurate but I always wondered how many other women were out there like my mom who could easily be in one of those roles if they chose to.

anything's possible in the land of make believe.

if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry christmas.

you hit the nail on the head.

its all about ego. "I could do that if I wanted to"..

if your moms contribution were repeated by a man in a given family it would be considered failure.

stop simping, kuk boy.

 

[cawacko]

anything's possible in the land of make believe.

if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry christmas.

you hit the nail on the head.

its all about ego. "I could do that if I wanted to"..

if your moms contribution were repeated by a man in a given family it would be considered failure.

stop simping, kuk boy.

LOL, you would be one of those GCs she metaphorically b*tch slapped. (I have a feeling you would like that.)

Big swinging dicks come in all shapes, sizes and genders.

Hate the game azzhat, not the player

 

[Jerry Mathers]

LOL, you would be one of those GCs she metaphorically b*tch slapped. (I have a feeling you would like that.)

Big swinging dicks come in all shapes, sizes and genders.

Hate the game azzhat, not the player

she was tough with a couple contractors?

big deal.

not a hero.

you have lowered the standard for heroism and strength.

she led a coddled protected existence provided by your father.

 

[Lionfish]

 

[tigerred59]

Fun fact......The latest studies concerning female mental health show that almost 50% of American women are under a Doctors care for mental health issues to one degree or another. Sadly this means the other half are going untreated and not receiving the care they so desperately need.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

That’s very interesting. My mom is 79 so she likely grew up in a similar environment when it came to women in the workplace.

I will say for her there were a number of years she did not “work”. And I put it in parentheses because I mean, she did not have an official job, but she was always entrepreneurial and she and my father moved many times and she created a lot of value and did really well at fixing up the homes that they lived in.

So you would hear these statistics about only X percent of executive leadership and companies being women and the numbers were accurate but I always wondered how many other women were out there like my mom who could easily be in one of those roles if they chose to.

Exactly. Choice, IMO, is a human right. Our Founding Fathers would agree that a man born to, say, a bricklayer/mason shouldn't be condemned to that work just because his father did it. Why should it be any different for a woman born to a stay-at-home mother?

My only quibble with hardline feminists, although I don't personally know any, is this. When women started entering universities and mostly-male occupations in droves, some started to look down on those of us who chose to be home with our kids and earn money by providing daycare, working remotely for a company, or otherwise entrepreneurial like your mom. That's kind of died out but for a while it was pretty sad. Humans can be jerks no matter what gender we have.

 

[cawacko]

Exactly. Choice, IMO, is a human right. Our Founding Fathers would agree that a man born to, say, a bricklayer/mason shouldn't be condemned to that work just because his father did it. Why should it be any different for a woman born to a stay-at-home mother?

My only quibble with hardline feminists, although I don't personally know any, is this. When women started entering universities and mostly-male occupations in droves, some started to look down on those of us who chose to be home with our kids and earn money by providing daycare, working remotely for a company, or otherwise entrepreneurial like your mom. That's kind of died out but for a while it was pretty sad. Humans can be jerks no matter what gender we have.

That is really interesting you say that, because that thought crossed my mind.

To end her arc, once he got out of teaching my father travelled a lot for work. And when they were empty nesters it included spending a decent amount of time in Europe and Asia. My mom went on many of the trips with him (understandably imo). With that, she was a great resource for him as a sounding board and with ideas as well as at dinners with big executives etc. she could more than hold her own.

But to what you were saying, would someone more hardcore look at her and possibly think 'you had this level of education and ability, you owed it to other women to take a role in corporate America to help break down barriers and mentor the next generation of women' and by choosing the path you did you abdicated your duties to help other women?

I share your perspective, that it's about having the choice to do as you please. Girls can play sports today, if they choose, just like boys. That certainly wasn't always the case. A lot fewer women went to college back in the day, now more women graduate than men. There are more men in executive suites today but women can still get there, it's available to them compared to 50 - 60+ years ago.

And if one chooses to stay home and raise a family or not get deep into the rat race so to speak, seems like that shouldn't be frowned upon either.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

That is really interesting you say that, because that thought crossed my mind.

To end her arc, once he got out of teaching my father travelled a lot for work. And when they were empty nesters it included spending a decent amount of time in Europe and Asia. My mom went on many of the trips with him (understandably imo). With that, she was a great resource for him as a sounding board and with ideas as well as at dinners with big executives etc. she could more than hold her own.

But to what you were saying, would someone more hardcore look at her and possibly think 'you had this level of education and ability, you owed it to other women to take a role in corporate America to help break down barriers and mentor the next generation of women' and by choosing the path you did you abdicated your duties to help other women?

I share your perspective, that it's about having the choice to do as you please. Girls can play sports today, if they choose, just like boys. That certainly wasn't always the case. A lot fewer women went to college back in the day, now more women graduate than men. There are more men in executive suites today but women can still get there, it's available to them compared to 50 - 60+ years ago.

And if one chooses to stay home and raise a family or not get deep into the rat race so to speak, seems like that shouldn't be frowned upon either.

Ra-men.

The same goes for guys. If they wants to be the FT at-home parent, good for them. If he wants to go into nursing or elementary school teaching or owner of a hair stylist center, why the hell not?

 

[Jarod]

Should a woman ever be forced to reproduce?