T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
If some polity wants to have government enforce their moral views, then they are not on the far or even moderately radical Right. That falls somewhere between Centrist and the Left.
Hitler was on the Right side of the spectrum. . .
- Thread starter Jarod
- Start date
But the right wants the Government to enforce their moral views, ie abortion, sexuality, etc, and now you are telling us that is a leftist view?
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Which part of my explanation eludes you exactly?
Nothing “eludes” me, just pointing out you emphasized above the right is “skeptical of government.,”are anti-government” and “reject government,” but when I showed you how the right wants the government to enforce their moral beliefs you then told us that that was leftist.
You appear to be generalizing anything you don’t like leftist even if it something the right itself believes
Yeah, we know, Hitler banned smoking and favored animal rights, that proves he was a leftist
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
It is two of a myriad of things that prove it, your trivial objections using cherry picking notwithstanding.
Matt Dillon
Retardium User
OP is a retard. "Google" (or your favorite search engine) "NSDAP Britannica" and it'll tell you all you need to know, almost.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
The actual Right doesn't want to do that. The Right that is to the right of Leftists, wants to do that. That doesn't make them on the actual Right. What confuses you is that the far Right is an irrelevant fringe of nutters and such like I pointed out earlier.
You would be wrong, because your thinking and point of view on this is myopic.
QP!
Verified User
ignorant spewing by an ignorant person who speaks on topics he knows nothing about...
The poster's claim is historically inaccurate and has little connection to actual reality.
Mainstream historians, political scientists, and economic experts widely classify Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany as far-right. While the Nazi party used the word "Socialist" in its name to appeal to the working class during the Great Depression, Hitler's actual, enacted policies violently rejected both left-wing economic theory and left-wing social values. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7]
Here is a fact-check breakdown of his actual enacted policies:
1. Economic Policies: State-Driven Corporatism, Not Left-Wing Socialism
The defining feature of left-wing economics (socialism or communism) is the abolition of private property and the public or worker ownership of the means of production. Hitler did the exact opposite: [1, 2, 3]
- Mass Privatization: During the 1930s, while Western democracies were expanding state involvement to fight the Great Depression, Nazi Germany underwent a massive wave of privatization. The state sold off public railways, banks, and steel mills to private corporations. [1, 2]
- Alliance with Big Business: The Nazi regime left the means of production in private hands. Major capitalist enterprises (such as Krupp, IG Farben, Siemens, and Volkswagen) thrived, generated massive profits, and cooperated closely with the state. [1, 2, 3]
- Crushing Labor Rights: One of Hitler’s first actions upon taking power in 1933 was to ban independent trade unions. He arrested labor leaders, banned strikes, and replaced unions with a state-run front (German Labour Front) that frozen worker wages and favored big industrialists. [1, 2]
2. Social Policies: Extreme Ultranationalism and Inequality
Left-wing social ideology historically centers on egalitarianism (social equality), international worker solidarity, and the dismantling of traditional hierarchies. Hitler’s social policies were completely antithetical to these values: [1]
- Racial Hierarchy over Class Solidarity: The ultimate goal of Nazi social policy was the Volksgemeinschaft (racial community). It completely rejected the left-wing concept of class struggle, replacing it with strict racial hierarchy and Social Darwinism. [1, 2, 3, 4]
- Hyper-Reactionary Social Norms: Nazi social policies were heavily conservative and exclusionary. Women were heavily pressured out of the workforce to focus purely on domestic childbearing, LGBTQ+ individuals were brutally persecuted, and marginalized groups were systematically stripped of citizenship and murdered. [1, 2, 3]
3. Violent Destruction of the Political Left
If Hitler's policies were on the political left, the European left would have championed him. Instead, leftists were his primary political enemies. [1, 2, 3]
Upon taking power, Hitler banned the Social Democratic Party (SPD) and the Communist Party (KPD). The very first prisoners sent to Dachau, Germany's first concentration camp, were left-wing politicians, socialists, and union organizers. Furthermore, Hitler’s entire foreign policy and ideological framework (Mein Kampf) was centered on the destruction of "Judeo-Bolshevism" (Communism), which he viewed as an existential threat to humanity. [1, 2, 3, 4]
QP!
Verified User
Summary of Left vs. Nazi Ideology
The Verdict: The poster is repeating a common internet myth that confuses the tactical use of the word "Socialist" in the Nazi party's branding with their actual governing actions. In practice, Hitler’s economic and social regimes were defined by fascism, corporatism, and extreme right-wing ultranationalism. [1, 2, 3, 4]
| Policy/Concept | Left-Wing Ideology (Socialism/Communism) | Hitler's Actual Enacted Policy (Nazism) |
|---|---|---|
| Means of Production | Public, state, or collective worker ownership. | De jure private property; massive privatization. |
| Labor Unions | Championed; controlled or run by workers. | Completely banned; replaced by state control. |
| Core Social Focus | International worker solidarity and equality. | Strict racial purity, nationalism, and hierarchy. |
| Treatment of Leftists | Aligned or ideologically linked. | Systematically imprisoned, banned, and executed. |
The Verdict: The poster is repeating a common internet myth that confuses the tactical use of the word "Socialist" in the Nazi party's branding with their actual governing actions. In practice, Hitler’s economic and social regimes were defined by fascism, corporatism, and extreme right-wing ultranationalism. [1, 2, 3, 4]
QP!
Verified User
^ False and lie.
Hitler would have seen the left as his enemy in the US just as he did as outlined above in my prior post.
He would have taken comfort with Orban and Trump and Erdogan and Putin and found allies.
Guno צְבִי
We fight, We win, Am Yisrael Chai
Such a low IQ, goy beit din is the correct pronunciation in the Jewish community using Hebrew, such a drunken Irish goy
QP!
Verified User
Oh so all someone has to do is use a name and that makes them the thing? It is that easy?? No one ever lies or purposely coopts another identity to try and sell themselves as something they are not in the world you live in?
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Grok is just using sources that equivocate. Statist Capitalism is a form of Socialism
State Capitalism: The Illusion of Socialist Progress
Discover how state capitalism, a mix of free markets and state controls, is crippling economies. Learn why a truly free market is the solution.
capitalism.org
Statist Capitalism, Totalitarianism and Socialism
'State capitalism' is a term levied at nominally socialist regimes to highlight how they fall so far from their stated aims. But how conceptually useful is it?
menshie.substack.com
The state controls what gets produced even as the means of production are left in private hands. The state decides winners and losers in the market place.
Society over the individual is a hallmark of the Left.
Just because Hitler went after other Leftist political parties and groups does not preclude him and the Nazis from being on the Left. Your, well Grok's, line of argument is one that requires the Left to be in lockstep between various political factions. This has never been the case. Destroying Leftists (along with everyone else that disagrees with your politics in the slightest) that don't exactly match your own vision of things is a staple of the Left.
QP!
Verified User
^Wrong and stupid.
we should NEVER ignore historians and military scholars based on someone saying 'listening to what they say or have determined is just an Appeal to authority fallacy'. That is like saying accepting an Doctors diagnosis is just an Appeal to Authority.
The EXPERTS not only need to have a voice in these discussions but the most important ones. That does not mean they are infallible and not to be questioned but to hand wave them away as 'Appeal to Authority fallacy' as if their words hold no value in the discussion is just stupid.
Meaning you are stupid.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Guno צְבִי
We fight, We win, Am Yisrael Chai
And the DPRK , North korea is the Democratic peoples' republic of Korea, you dumb fuck
QP!
Verified User
Grok is just using sources that equivocate. Statist Capitalism is a form of Socialism
State Capitalism: The Illusion of Socialist Progress
Discover how state capitalism, a mix of free markets and state controls, is crippling economies. Learn why a truly free market is the solution.capitalism.org
Statist Capitalism, Totalitarianism and Socialism
'State capitalism' is a term levied at nominally socialist regimes to highlight how they fall so far from their stated aims. But how conceptually useful is it?
The state controls what gets produced even as the means of production are left in private hands. The state decides winners and losers in the market place.
Society over the individual is a hallmark of the Left.
Just because Hitler went after other Leftist political parties and groups does not preclude him and the Nazis from being on the Left. Your, well Grok's, line of argument is one that requires the Left to be in lockstep between various political factions. This has never been the case. Destroying Leftists (along with everyone else that disagrees with your politics in the slightest) that don't exactly match your own vision of things is a staple of the Left.
The poster is redefining political science terms to fit their conclusion.
Their response relies on historical half-truths and a fundamental misunderstanding of what actually defines "the Left" versus "the Right."
Here is a direct, point-by-point rebuttal of those claims:
1. "Statist Capitalism is a form of Socialism"
This is a logical contradiction. By definition, Capitalism preserves private property and private profit, whereas Socialism is defined by the public or social ownership of the means of production. Nazi Germany explicitly protected private ownership and corporate profits.
- The Reality: While the Nazi state heavily regulated the economy, it did so to prepare for war—not to redistribute wealth to the working class. If "state intervention" automatically equals socialism, then every wartime government in history (including the U.S. and Great Britain during WWII) would be "socialist." Historians call Hitler’s model fascist corporatism or a command capitalist economy, where big business and the state form a partnership. True socialism seeks to eliminate the capitalist class; Hitler partnered with them.
2. "Society over the individual is a hallmark of the Left"
This is an oversimplification that ignores the fundamental difference between Collectivism and Nationalism. "Society over the individual" is a feature of authoritarianism across the entire political spectrum, not just the Left.
- The Reality: The Left's traditional concept of collectivism is built on class solidarity (workers of the world unite) and universal egalitarianism. Hitler’s collectivism was built on racial supremacy (Volksgemeinschaft). Hitler did not believe all members of society were equal; he believed in a strict, brutal hierarchy based on race, biology, and social Darwinism. Fascism and extreme right-wing ultranationalism always demand that the individual sacrifice themselves for the "Nation" or the "Race"—which is the exact opposite of left-wing internationalism.
3. "Just because Hitler went after other Leftist political parties... does not preclude him from being on the Left."
It is true that left-wing factions (like Stalinists and Trotskyists) have historically fought each other. However, Hitler didn't just purge competing left-wing factions; he dismantled the entire ideological foundation of the Left.
- The Reality: When left-wing factions fight, they are usually arguing over how to achieve a socialist utopia. Hitler didn't fight leftists to achieve socialism; he fought them because he explicitly viewed Marxism and Communism as an existential, biological threat to civilization (what he called "Judeo-Bolshevism"). He didn't just target political rivals; he outlawed the very concepts of trade unionism, class struggle, and universal equality.
4. The Night of the Long Knives: The Literal Purge of the Nazi "Left"
If you want absolute proof that Hitler rejected left-wing policies, look at what he did to his own party.
- The Reality: Early on, there was a faction within the Nazi party (led by Gregor and Otto Strasser) that genuinely believed in the "Socialist" part of National Socialism and wanted to redistribute wealth. In 1934, during the Night of the Long Knives, Hitler had the Strasserites and the anti-capitalist wing of his party assassinated
. He explicitly chose to side with the traditional right-wing elite, conservative military generals, and wealthy industrialists over the socialist elements of his own movement.
Summary Core Argument
The poster is mistaking Authoritarian Control for Left-Wing Ideology.
A regime can be authoritarian, collectivist, and state-driven without being left-wing. By stripping away private property rights from "undesirables" while enriching private corporations, and by replacing class equality with strict racial hierarchy, Hitler acted as the textbook definition of the far-right.
QP!
Verified User
^ using terms incorrectly, as always you neither use correctly nor understand.
Guno צְבִי
We fight, We win, Am Yisrael Chai
You are what we refer to as a farkakn goyim in yiddish