Matt Dillon
Retardium User
Compared to what?
Moral relativism
- Thread starter Hume
- Start date
I do not understand the question. What is ethics compared to?
Most of them did. Sophocles' play Antigone is very much an expression of the tension between the unwritten eternal divine law and the practices and laws made by humans.
Most did not.
Each city-state had their own ethical practice.
One of the reasons Athens condemned Socrates was because he wanted a universal morality.
Aristotle was lecturing a relatively small cadre of students.
Antigone was written by the foremost playwright in Athens for the wider citizen body of Athens.
The most reasonable expectation is that Sophocles was touching on themes that the citizen body as a whole would understand and appreciate.
These playwrights were trying to win prizes. Their plays were intended to connect with the citizen body.
Yes, just like Jesus.
The main reason is that some of his students were seen as Spartan collaborators and allies of the tyranny installed in Athens by Sparta, and Socrates was perceived to be guilty by association.
Not the main reason. There were many charges, like corrupting the youth. Believing in the wrong Gods.
Yakuda
Verified User
You see the paradox I dont, dude
Yakuda
Verified User
The first line alone is disagreeable. There are absolute moral truths and personal morals is a useless idea that has lead us to exactly where we are as a society.
It was like the Trump Justice Department: just throw out a variety changes and see what sticks.
Socrates annoyed powerful people, and gave young students funny ideas about questioning authority.
But that's not enough to get him killed.
The fact that Socrates was perceived to be an enemy of democracy and was thought to be affiliated with Spartan collaborators were the Issues that really animated people against him.
Yakuda
Verified User
You dont understand what I posted then, dude. Instead of asking me to clarify you challenge me. Thats leftism at work dude
Never heard of that. Source?
Plato never mentioned this.
Yes, Socrates was widely viewed by the public and his accusers as a Spartan collaborator and a threat to Athenian democracy. While he was officially prosecuted in 399 BC for "impiety" and "corrupting the youth," modern and ancient historians agree that his trial was deeply political, fueled by his close associations with notorious traitors and pro-Spartan oligarchs. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
The suspicion of his collaboration stems from three major factors:
1. Guilt by Association: The Thirty Tyrants
In 404 BC, after defeating Athens in the Peloponnesian War, Sparta installed a brutal puppet government in Athens known as the Thirty Tyrants. This junta executed roughly 5% of the Athenian population and confiscated massive amounts of property. [1, 2, 3]
- Critias, the bloodiest and most extreme leader of the Thirty Tyrants, had been a close, prominent student of Socrates.
- Charmides, another member of the Thirty, was also part of Socrates' inner circle.
- Alcibiades, a former student and charismatic general whom Socrates once saved in battle, famously defected from Athens to Sparta during the war, delivering critical strategic secrets to Athens' greatest enemy
Sources embedded as hyperlinks in the AI summary.
The fact that some of Socrates' most prominent students were seen as Spartan collaborators, and many thought Socrates was therefore guilty by association, is a well known historical fact.
The Republic does not portray Socrates as a fan of democracy. Athenian citizens also perceived Socrates as hostile to democracy.
No, it is pure speculation. No record of the trial exists beyond Plato. Aristotle discusses Socrates but never Sparta as cause of trial.
I'm just telling you what the conventional wisdom of scholarship is. Socrates was portrayed by Plato as hostile to democracy, moreover it is established fact that some of Socrates' most important students collaborated with Sparta, or served in the tyranny that Sparta installed in Athens.
Impeity is not what got Socrates killed. When democracy was reestablished in Athens, citizens remembered that Socrates' students served as Spartan collaborators and that Socrates himself seemed hostile to democracy. That is was ultimately led to his demise.
I think the charges were overblown, and Socrates can't be blamed that his students collaborated with the Spartan enemies.