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Being human is hard, this pair of psychologists say. Could accepting we don’t have free will make it easier?
- Thread starter Hume
- Start date
Test for free will is not in a laboratory. And what concept are they using anyway?If it can’t be tested it ain’t very meaningful
If someone can predict another person’s choice milliseconds before they are themselves consciously aware of their own choice ( which is what the fMRI results would indicate) then free will is hardly freeTest for free will is not in a laboratory. And what concept are they using anyway?
functional MRITest for free will is not in a laboratory. And what concept are they using anyway?
So a lab can tell me from a brain scan I plan to call my friend tomorrow at 5 PM?If someone can predict another person’s choice milliseconds before they are themselves consciously aware of their own choice ( which is what the fMRI results would indicate) then free will is hardly free
How do they define free will?functional MRI
Like I said the data indicate that there is intent coming before the conscious development of the choiceSo a lab can tell me from a brain scan I plan to call my friend tomorrow at 5 PM?
So, no, it cannot show where I plan to make a phone call tommorow.Like I said the data indicate that there is intent coming before the conscious development of the choice
Ignore the science as it is convenientSo, no, it cannot show where I plan to make a phone call tommorow.
What science proves they can measure what I plan to do tomorrow?Ignore the science as it is convenient
I thought we were discussing free will and not your specific question. If the intent to call your friend developed in your brain there’s a chance it could have been seen in an fMRI scan milliseconds before you were conscious of your decision. Ergo free will would be meaninglessWhat science proves they can measure what I plan to do tomorrow?
That is example of free will. Ability to think of an action in the future and perform it. From the definition I posted above.I thought we were discussing free will and not your specific question.
Then I have answered thatThat is example of free will. Ability to think of an action in the future and perform it. From the definition I posted above.
I do not think anyone defines free will that way.If the intent to call your friend developed in your brain there’s a chance it could have been seen in an fMRI scan milliseconds before you were conscious of your decision.
No, you did not address an action planned one day ahead. Just milliseconds.Then I have answered that
You want me to watch a 53 minute video in lieu of you being able to adequately explain it in your own words? Surely you jest.
Subconscious electrochemical signals in someone's brain a few milliseconds before they push a button or lift their arm does not disprove we have veto power or agency of deliberation.
I seriously doubt you actually believe that you had no control over picking a college major or choosing a spouse.
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" Libet conducted some simple experiments that seemed to reveal the existence of ‘preparatory’ brain activity shortly before a subject engages in an ostensibly spontaneous action. (Libet interpreted this activity as the brain’s ‘deciding’ what to do before we are consciously settled on a course of action.)If someone can predict another person’s choice milliseconds before they are themselves consciously aware of their own choice ( which is what the fMRI results would indicate) then free will is hardly free
Libet’s interpretation of the readiness potential has come in for severe criticism. "After extensive subsequent study, neuroscientists are uncertain what it signifies."
In other words Murphy posted a fringe scientific study that has come in for widespread criticism in the scientific community, and tried to pass it off here as the accepted scientific consensus" Libet conducted some simple experiments that seemed to reveal the existence of ‘preparatory’ brain activity shortly before a subject engages in an ostensibly spontaneous action. (Libet interpreted this activity as the brain’s ‘deciding’ what to do before we are consciously settled on a course of action.)
Libet’s interpretation of the readiness potential has come in for severe criticism. "After extensive subsequent study, neuroscientists are uncertain what it signifies."
Not fringe. But not widely accepted. I heard about when in grad school.In other words Murphy posted a fringe scientific study that has come in for widespread criticism in the scientific community, and tried to pass it off here as the accepted scientific consensus
Right, only fringe in the sense It's conclusions have not been widely accepted in the scientific community.Not fringe. But not widely accepted. I heard about when in grad school.
The Libet study seems to be from 1983, which is ancient by the standards of neuroscience.
An subconscious electrochemical signal four milliseconds before someone lifts an arm does not disprove we have veto power or the agency of deliberation