Name one purely capitalist Country?

[Uncensored2008]

Using government regulate roads, materials, eminent domain.

False.

Additionally there was a government imposed non-compete clause. Something only the government could impose or grant.
“The private enterprise” required the toll lanes to be full in order to make a profit.

Sadly this happens a great deal.

The ONLY monopolies possible, outside of natural monopoly - are government imposed. Something you Marxists fail to acknowledge.

When the government stopped imposing the non-compete clause, the company profits quickly went negative and the State purchased the enterprise.

Flat out lie. First off, the Anaheim Corridor runs through a pass with the Cleveland National Forest on one side, and the Santa Ana River on the other. (I live in Yorba Linda.) No one can build on either side. So there is no way anyone else could build. But as I linked, they were profitable from the start to the time Jerry Brown forced them to sell to the state.

Please provide a link saying there was 0 government assistance?

I already did. You're trying to play games.

{The 91 Express Lanes opened in 1995, built by a private group, the California Private Transportation Co. because public funding wasn’t available, for $135 million with the 10-mile tollway rolling along inside the 91 Freeway in Orange County to the Riverside County line. There are two lanes each way.}

AKA this “private company” was dependent on the government imposing a rule only government can impose,

Most building projects require permits that ONLY government can provide.

This was a 100% private venture that was highly profitable and didn't consume a dime of taxpayer money.

You lose.

 

[QP!]

Roughly 45% of Americans have a 401K. That is a plan in which their retirement fund is invested in trade and industry for profit.

About 44% have an IRA (there is some overlap here but it isn't clear to what degree). Same thing.

About 58% own stock, mostly through the above plans.

About 55% of Americans have owned a business at some point in their life.

So, roughly a plurality of Americans (half) are Capitalists to one degree or another.

This is a very weak argument.

You are arguing that simple ownership, whether desired or not, willing or not, but simply owning, whether direct or indirect, makes one a 'Capitalist'.

if true that even if you did not make any conscious choice to be included but your simple 'ownership' includes you in that club then if you follow that logic, then every stock those funds hold and every thing the companies do whose stock is in them (Military complex, etc) you then PERSONALLY are tied to those positions as being a supporter.

Meaning I can look at all the companies in Terry's 401K, IRA, etc and state he is personally a 'Neocon' if they have any military complex stocks, etc.

And while i do support individuals who have the choice of where to invest their money not buying into stocks that support things they do not (as then they are complicit), most American's put in passive funds where they have no control are not, by default then, 'NeoCons' or 'Capitalists', etc just because they were put in them.

 

[QP!]

The vast majority of stocks are owned by a few people.

Yup.

And those people have agency and can choose what they do and do not want to put their money in and support.

So if they buy Military complex stocks it is fair to call them neocon's or at least 'supporters of them'.

If you have a default investment in some fund that you do not control that decides to buy a military complex stock, and you have no agency in that choice, as your work handles the investment, it would be wrong to call you 'neocon' or 'supporter of them', as if you could just quit your job to redirect your funds. That would be unreasonable jump.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Most roads are FUNDED by government.

The one I noted was not. It was a 100% private venture. And highly profitable.

Most highways are. In cities and urban areas most streets are privately funded and built as part of infrastructure projects, say like a large residential neighborhood. The developer puts in all the infrastructure, sewer, water, roads, drainage, etc., and when the project is complete turns it over to the city / government to operate in exchange for tax breaks and other compensation that makes the project more profitable.

 

[Into the Night]

Most roads are FUNDED by government.

The government is billed for the work, yes...just like any other customer.

Like usual with governments, they must go through an extensive analysis before they decide to buy any major item. A road is no different.
Are you suggesting that because a government buys a server rack of 24 Dell machines that the Dell computers is the government?

No. They buy fire trucks, police cars, tanks, missiles, ammunition, roads, computers, desks, paper, and everything else from private companies: capitalism.

NASA did not build a single rocket. They bought them from private companies. NASA only flew them. They may have laid out design specs for what they wanted to buy, but how is that different than choosing what colors you want the painters to apply to your house.

The mistake these idiots make is that government paying a bill they consider socialism, in an effort to justify socialism.

The one I noted was not. It was a 100% private venture. And highly profitable.

Privately owned toll roads often are.

 

[Into the Night]

As radio talk show host and author Thom Hartmann once pointed out, the vast majority of Americans HAVE NO CAPITAL to speak of, so technically they are NOT capitalists. Note the following dictionary definitions:

Capitalist: a person who invests in trade and industry for profit in accordance with the principles of capitalism:

Capitalism: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit:

Redefinition fallacy.
No dictionary defines any word.

Capitalism is the voluntary creation of products and services for voluntary sale at the agreed upon price. In other words, the open market.
It requires no government to function.

If you own a computer, that is capital. If you own a car, that is capital. If you bought your house, that is capital.
If you buy a can of soup from the store, that is capital.

Capitalism IS economy. It is the only system that creates wealtlh.

Socialism is NOT an economy. It is based on the theft of wealth.

 

[Into the Night]

Roughly 45% of Americans have a 401K. That is a plan in which their retirement fund is invested in trade and industry for profit.

About 44% have an IRA (there is some overlap here but it isn't clear to what degree). Same thing.

About 58% own stock, mostly through the above plans.

About 55% of Americans have owned a business at some point in their life.

So, roughly a plurality of Americans (half) are Capitalists to one degree or another.

Your tools are capital.
Your car is capital.
Your house is capital.
Your shoes is capital.

Capital is not limited to stocks, bonds, or futures contracts.

 

[Into the Night]

every nation is fascist.

thanks for playing.

Fascism is not a form of government.

 

[Into the Night]

Silly, not even their goal. You fell for it!

It is their goal, Pretender. Don't try to deny who you are. DON'T TRY TO DENY YOUR OWN POSTS!

 

[Into the Night]

Using government regulate roads, materials, eminent domain.

Government does not regulate roads. It only specifies specifications for what they want to buy. These specifications are usually public.

Additionally there was a government imposed non-compete clause.

None, Pretender.

Something only the government could impose or grant.
“The private enterprise” required the toll lanes to be full in order to make a profit.

No such thing, Pretender.

When the government stopped imposing the non-compete clause, the company profits quickly went negative and the State purchased the enterprise.

No such thing, Pretender.

Please provide a link saying there was 0 government assistance?

RQAA

AKA this “private company” was dependent on the government imposing a rule only government can impose,

Private ownership is not government, Pretender.

 

[Into the Night]

Most highways are. In cities and urban areas most streets are privately funded and built as part of infrastructure projects, say like a large residential neighborhood. The developer puts in all the infrastructure, sewer, water, roads, drainage, etc., and when the project is complete turns it over to the city / government to operate in exchange for tax breaks and other compensation that makes the project more profitable.

Some neighborhoods continue to own and maintain their own roads as well, though more rare.

 

[Into the Night]

False.



Sadly this happens a great deal.

The ONLY monopolies possible, outside of natural monopoly - are government imposed. Something you Marxists fail to acknowledge.



Flat out lie. First off, the Anaheim Corridor runs through a pass with the Cleveland National Forest on one side, and the Santa Ana River on the other. (I live in Yorba Linda.) No one can build on either side. So there is no way anyone else could build. But as I linked, they were profitable from the start to the time Jerry Brown forced them to sell to the state.



I already did. You're trying to play games.

{The 91 Express Lanes opened in 1995, built by a private group, the California Private Transportation Co. because public funding wasn’t available, for $135 million with the 10-mile tollway rolling along inside the 91 Freeway in Orange County to the Riverside County line. There are two lanes each way.}



Most building projects require permits that ONLY government can provide.

This was a 100% private venture that was highly profitable and didn't consume a dime of taxpayer money.

You lose.

Quite right. A monopoly is unstable. The only way it can be sustained is through government interference.

A monopoly tends to be like the proverbial brontosaurus. It is simply too big to maneuver well in the market anymore. A small, fast moving competitor will usually show up sooner or later and blow the dinosaur's kneecaps off. The old dinosaur will not even realize the pain before it's too late to do anything about it.

Ford/GM/Chrysler -> japanese and german imports. TOYOTA is not the largest auto manufacturer, not Ford.

IBM->personal computer. Broke that old dinosaur's back but good!

Microsoft->Apple/Linux/Android. Microsoft has not been blown out of the automotive market, the server market, and the embedded market. They seem to be working hard to lose the desktop market as well.

de Haviland -> Boeing, broke de Haviland (or, rather, the Comet broke de Haviland and Boeing had a practical solution, making it a very successful passenger jet supplier.


Building permits themselves are fascism. They interfere with the market. Sure you still own the land and building, but government tells you how you must build it, and even interferes with who you must hire to build it. And what do we get for it? Shoddy construction methods that result in inferior houses that begin rotting and falling apart even before they are sold.

I installed a driveway recently. The land slopes away from the road and there is no ditch. The idiot inspector required a culvert installed under the driveway. It never has any water in it. It is just a place for critters to nest in. These guys are often just mindless.

Does the building code have a purpose, sure it does. But building to the code means building to the absolute minimums. I know a lot of builders that don't even meet that, but just bribe an inspector to sign off on it anyway.

The crap you see in houses today is downright scary.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Some neighborhoods continue to own and maintain their own roads as well, though more rare.

The "horse properties" just to the north of where I live have private streets and they are marked as such.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Quite right. A monopoly is unstable. The only way it can be sustained is through government interference.

A monopoly tends to be like the proverbial brontosaurus. It is simply too big to maneuver well in the market anymore. A small, fast moving competitor will usually show up sooner or later and blow the dinosaur's kneecaps off. The old dinosaur will not even realize the pain before it's too late to do anything about it.

Ford/GM/Chrysler -> japanese and german imports. TOYOTA is not the largest auto manufacturer, not Ford.

The Japanese innovated in production techniques while for US manufacturers they were saddled with the UAW limiting what changes they could make. That gave the Japanese an advantage.

IBM->personal computer. Broke that old dinosaur's back but good!

IBM invented the mass use / sale personal computer--these existed but were not very successful--with the 8088. What IBM couldn't do was produce newer models cheaper than competitors.

Microsoft->Apple/Linux/Android. Microsoft has not been blown out of the automotive market, the server market, and the embedded market. They seem to be working hard to lose the desktop market as well.

Microsoft's edge was that Bill Gates was a world class salesman. His selling DOS to IBM created the Microsoft giant. Linux was not designed as an operating system for small computers and continues to be the go-to for large systems even today.

de Haviland -> Boeing, broke de Haviland (or, rather, the Comet broke de Haviland and Boeing had a practical solution, making it a very successful passenger jet supplier.

DeHavilland, like other British aircraft manufacturers was done in by the British government. Stupid decision making, pushing Socialist programs, and idiotic ideas crushed the entire British aircraft industry.

Building permits themselves are fascism. They interfere with the market. Sure you still own the land and building, but government tells you how you must build it, and even interferes with who you must hire to build it. And what do we get for it? Shoddy construction methods that result in inferior houses that begin rotting and falling apart even before they are sold.

Building permits are not "fascism." They are a reasonable step when applied reasonably. Where the government makes restrictions on land use in an urban setting, that is reasonable for fire and safety reasons. It is reasonable for government to say your building has to meet certain standards to not burn down an adjacent building for example. That is reasonable.

Building permits are issued to prevent shoddy construction methods and generally do. If anything, it is unqualified builders or those taking major shortcuts to save money that are the problem.

Does the building code have a purpose, sure it does. But building to the code means building to the absolute minimums. I know a lot of builders that don't even meet that, but just bribe an inspector to sign off on it anyway.

That was at one time. Now, often manufacturers of building materials and others with a vested interest get stuff into code that benefits them. An example in the NEC is the requirement for AFI's (Arc Fault Interrupts) in bedrooms of housing. Hubble invented this device and used the Code to force use in new construction. They made millions selling their device off that.

The crap you see in houses today is downright scary.

The crap you see in older houses and ones that have amateur, wildcat, construction on them is what's scary.

 

[Into the Night]

The Japanese innovated in production techniques while for US manufacturers they were saddled with the UAW limiting what changes they could make. That gave the Japanese an advantage.

UAW did not limit what changes they could make.

IBM invented the mass use / sale personal computer--these existed but were not very successful--with the 8088. What IBM couldn't do was produce newer models cheaper than competitors.

I am referring to the mainframe.
However, the IBM personal computer WAS a success...at least until too many clones started popping up. The clones started getting better than the IBM pc.

Microsoft's edge was that Bill Gates was a world class salesman.

He was a good salesman. I'll give him that.

His selling DOS to IBM created the Microsoft giant.

No. The languages group created the Microsoft giant.
DOS (which was stolen) came much later.

Linux was not designed as an operating system for small computers and continues to be the go-to for large systems even today.

Linux was designed as an operating system for the PC. Ask Linus Torvald why he transcribed Unix for the PC. It does not run on a minicomputer or mainframe.

DeHavilland, like other British aircraft manufacturers was done in by the British government. Stupid decision making, pushing Socialist programs, and idiotic ideas crushed the entire British aircraft industry.

Nope. Go research the Comet and how Boeing solved the problem.

Building permits are not "fascism."

They are exactly that.

They are a reasonable step when applied reasonably.

Permits are not 'applied'. They are not paint or a coating of any kind.

Where the government makes restrictions on land use in an urban setting, that is reasonable for fire and safety reasons.

Irrelevance fallacy.

It is reasonable for government to say your building has to meet certain standards to not burn down an adjacent building for example.

The government doesn't create any building code.

That is reasonable.

Building permits are issued to prevent shoddy construction methods and generally do. If anything, it is unqualified builders or those taking major shortcuts to save money that are the problem.

Building permits do not prevent the shoddy construction today.

That was at one time.

Still is, and it's growing worse.

Now, often manufacturers of building materials and others with a vested interest get stuff into code that benefits them.

The code does not specify any particular building material.

An example in the NEC is the requirement for AFI's (Arc Fault Interrupts) in bedrooms of housing.

The government did not write the NEC.

Hubble invented this device and used the Code to force use in new construction. They made millions selling their device off that.

Hubble didn't write the code either.

The crap you see in older houses and ones that have amateur, wildcat, construction on them is what's scary.

Not at all. Older houses tend to be well built. They last for a long time, even if their electrical system is out of date.
Nothing prevents someone from getting rid of that old post and tube wiring, and people should.

New construction misuses Romex. They have terrible plumbing. The permit does not prevent any of this.
I've seen communications lines simply strung through the bushes near the house BY THE CONTRACTOR. They called it a good installation!

Structural defects. Facings that are literally falling off. Foundations that are so poorly laid out the building floods regularly. The use of cardboard as bracing panels. Wood in direct contact with concrete. Zero permeable barrier in walls.

That is NEW construction. It's garbage.