Archaeology of the New Testament

[ZenMode]

You claim we don't know, but the fact is you have already made a choice in spite of incomplete information. Which is fine. Humans make choices based on incomplete information every day of the week.

I've ruled it out, even if not 100%.

All throughout history, two things have been true: a) man has created gods to explain things he doesn't understand and b) the gods man has created to explain things have ended up not being the explanation.

So, you tell me why this time is different.

You believe inanimate matter and energy is all that exists, and that a rational, lawful universe was caused by the irrational, immaterial, and inanimate.

As I've said, man's ability to explain things after the fact, using equations, doesn't mean that what they are explaining is organized and lawful. I could drop a bucket of tennis balls off my roof and a physicists could write an equation for how each one mived.

If you deny that is your belief system, then you are telegraphing that you believe there is something higher up and further in beyond inanimate/irrational matter and energy.

As I said above, all throughout history, two things have been true: a) man has created gods to explain things he doesn't understand and b) the gods man has created to explain things have ended up not being the explanation.

I'll stick with "I don't know" rather than make the same mistake that man has made for millenia.

One would have to be an extremely jaded person to never have marveled and wondered at the sheer improbability of this universe, and the implausible nature of the perfect storm that caused sentient consciousness, love, morality, free will and freedom to briefly exist in a tiny little corner of the cosmos.

I marvel and wonder all the time.

 

[Jerry Mathers]

Right. You aren't reasoning objectively. You're reasoning religiously which is how you are able to explain away the many design flaws.

Not at all. I don't know why anything exists, including the universe and life. I just see it for what it is - a mystery.

"Mistake" implies intent. Something or something tried to do X but didn't do it correctly. The way the design of humans came about, evolution, was an imperfect process. The evolutionary process did a pretty damn good job, but imperfect in the ways I've mentioned many times.

I refer to mistakes because you are talking about an all-knowing designer creator who should NOT have made those mistakes.

How are you supposed to understand it? I don't think there is a "supposed to".

How do YOU, and billions of others, explain/understand it? In the same way ancient man explained things he didn't understand- you fill in the gaps in knowledge and understanding with a deity.

God of the Gaps.

give gap, take gap, for this is the sum of the law, and the prophets.

 

[Cypress]

ruled it out, even if not 100%.

All throughout history, two things have been true: a) man has created gods to explain things he doesn't understand and b) the gods man has created to explain things have ended up not being the explanation.

So, you tell me why this time is different.

99.9999 percent of scientific speculations, hypotheses, theories over time have been incorrect. Nobody talks about throwing science out.

More importantly, the ultimate cause and nature isn't a scientific question. It's a philosophical question.

Belief systems like Pantheism and Panentheism do not have gods throwing lighting bolts or dressing in white robes.
You can can complain 'till the cows come home about Thor and Zeus, but they have nothing to do with this fundamental and very legitimate philosophical question:

Given that we have imperfect information, is it a better choice to believe a rational and lawful universe was caused by the irrational, inanimate and immaterial? Or is it a better explanation that logically the rational and lawful can only come from the rational and purposeful?

As I've said, man's ability to explain things after the fact, using equations, doesn't mean that what they are explaining is organized and lawful. I could drop a bucket of tennis balls off my roof and a physicists could write an equation for how each one mived.

The mathematical laws of mechanics tell you nothing about the ultimate origin and purpose of the Universe. Even Isaac Newton understood this.

As I said above, all throughout history, two things have been true: a) man has created gods to explain things he doesn't understand and b) the gods man has created to explain things have ended up not being the explanation.

I'll stick with "I don't know" rather than make the same mistake that man has made for millenia.

You can claim you don't know, but your statements clearly show you have decided on a belief system. You believe nothing exists but matter and energy, and that a rational, lawful universe can only be caused by the inanimate and irrational.

I marvel and wonder all the time.

Its sounds to me like you marvel at how flawed and defective the universe, the Earth, and humans are.

But the fact is, if you had never read some article by an atheist complaining that our eyesight and bone structure are massively flawed, it would never have occurred to you that anything was seriously wrong. Assuming you are healthy, you would have on balance marveled at your eyesight and vision, and taken great delight in the capabilities of your body.

 

[ZenMode]

99.9999 percent of scientific speculations, hypotheses, theories over time have been incorrect. Nobody talks about throwing science out.

Link?

More importantly, the ultimate cause and nature isn't a scientific question. It's a philosophical question.

No it's not. It's absolutely a scientific question.

Belief systems like Pantheism and Panentheism do not have gods throwing lighting bolts or dressing in white robes.
You can can complain 'till the cows come home about Thor and Zeus, but they have nothing to do with this fundamental and very legitimate philosophical question:

The origin of the universe is a scientific question.

Given that we have imperfect information, is it a better choice to believe a rational and lawful universe was caused by the irrational, inanimate and immaterial? Or is it a better explanation that logically the rational and lawful can only come from the rational and purposeful?

Like I said above, why is this time different? Why do you think a god is the correct answer this time when man has been wrong over and over and over? Can you name one thing that started as a scientific answer and ended up being correctly explained as an act of god?

The mathematical laws of mechanics tell you nothing about the ultimate origin and purpose of the Universe. Even Isaac Newton understood this.

You can claim you don't know, but your statements clearly show you have decided on a belief system. You believe nothing exists but matter and energy, and that a rational, lawful universe can only be caused by the inanimate and irrational.

I have a belief system that goes like this: "Everything that many has explained as an act of god has been proven wrong by science." Why would I go with the 0% success rate this time?

Its sounds to me like you marvel at how flawed and defective the universe, the Earth, and humans are.

Nope. I marvel at the universe and all of the things in it, just like you do.

But the fact is, if you had never read some article by an atheist complaining that our eyesight and bone structure are massively flawed, it would never have occurred to you that anything was seriously wrong. Assuming you are healthy, you would have on balance marveled at your eyesight and vision, and taken great delight in the capabilities of your body.

The flaws I listed are valid.

 

[Into the Night]

YARP. Why are you posting random math equations?

 

[Into the Night]

I have no problems, nice try dickhead

Denying them or your fallacies doesn't make them just disappear. They are YOUR problems. Only YOU can deal with them. Denying them is not dealing with them.

DON'T TRY TO DENY YOUR OWN POSTS!

 

[Into the Night]

Nope. It's because you insist on playing dumb.

Your use of "Derp" is because you have lost context again.

 

[Into the Night]

I consider stating the obvious to be what I am doing.

It is certainly obvious you are a fundamentalist.

I do that while you and @Cypress exist in a world of denial.

Inversion fallacy.

You can't acknowledge obvious flaws

What 'obvious flaws'? You don't get to declare 'flaws' in intelligent design. You are not the designer. You are not God.

and cypress just wants to throw around straw men and focus on the part that is convenient for his argument.

I pointed out his strawman fallacy when he committed it.
It is not all he does.

You are describing yourself again.

 

[ZenMode]

Your use of "Derp" is because you have lost context again.

My use of derp is to let you know that I've seen your post and the "playing dumb" and am giving it the appropriate response.

 

[ZenMode]

What 'obvious flaws'? You don't get to declare 'flaws' in intelligent design. You are not the designer. You are not God.

Ah yes... Time to roll out the "intelligent design" angle in an attempt to retro-fit the nonsensical creation story from the Bible into evolution.

Anywho....the claim is that an all-knowing/powerful being designed the universe, and all of its contents, down to the microscopic level.

So, yes, evolution is why we have the flaws we do in human beings, that doesn't logically fit in to @Cypress story.

 

[Into the Night]

The fact that I could get sunburned, get skin cancer, or die in a flood tells me absolutely nothing about the purpose and value of a human life nor the origin of the cosmos.

How do you know the Universe as an origin?

You are obviously jaded and cynical about life and the universe, and see flaw, imperfection, and mistake wherever you look.

I guess that makes him a miserable pessimist.

I marvel at the improbability of both the existence and design of the universe -

The Universe is random. It shows no 'design'.

and I believe the ordinary fact of human existence is a miracle that the cynical and jaded just take for granted. Being alive is the most extraordinary, improbable, and miraculous twist of chance any of us experience. Our experience of sentient consciousness, love, and freedom is undoubtedly so precious and rare in the cosmos it seems to be objectively meaningful.

The question that all but the most jaded will inevitably ask is how am I supposed to understand and interpret the extremely improbable fact of my existence.

Your own way, of course.

 

[Into the Night]

I've ruled it out, even if not 100%.

All throughout history, two things have been true: a) man has created gods to explain things he doesn't understand and b) the gods man has created to explain things have ended up not being the explanation.

Nope. There have always been a variety of explanations to describe the same thing. Nothing new.

So, you tell me why this time is different.

As I've said, man's ability to explain things after the fact, using equations, doesn't mean that what they are explaining is organized and lawful. I could drop a bucket of tennis balls off my roof and a physicists could write an equation for how each one mived.

As I said above, all throughout history, two things have been true: a) man has created gods to explain things he doesn't understand and b) the gods man has created to explain things have ended up not being the explanation.

I'll stick with "I don't know" rather than make the same mistake that man has made for millenia.


I marvel and wonder all the time.

Good for you. At least you aren't bored, even with your religion.

 

[Into the Night]

My use of derp is to let you know that I've seen your post and the "playing dumb" and am giving it the appropriate response.

Your use of "Derp" is because you have lost context again.

 

[Into the Night]

Ah yes... Time to roll out the "intelligent design" angle in an attempt to retro-fit the nonsensical creation story from the Bible into evolution.

YOU rolled out the 'intelligent design' angle. YOU brought it up!
DON'T TRY TO DENY YOUR OWN POSTS!

The Bible dies not describe the Theory of Evolution.

Anywho....the claim is that an all-knowing/powerful being designed the universe, and all of its contents, down to the microscopic level.

YOU made the claim.

So, yes, evolution is why we have the flaws we do in human beings, that doesn't logically fit in to @Cypress story.

What 'flaws'?? You don't get to declare any 'flaws' for everybody. Omniscience fallacy.

 

[ZenMode]

YOU rolled out the 'intelligent design' angle. YOU brought it up!
DON'T TRY TO DENY YOUR OWN POSTS!

The Bible dies not describe the Theory of Evolution.

YOU made the claim.

What 'flaws'?? You don't get to declare any 'flaws' for everybody. Omniscience fallacy.

Yep ....

Derp!
Derp!
Derp!

 

[ZenMode]

Your use of "Derp" is because you have lost context again.

My use of derp is to let you know that I've seen your post and the "playing dumb" and am giving it the appropriate response.

 

[Jerry Mathers]

99.9999 percent of scientific speculations, hypotheses, theories over time have been incorrect. Nobody talks about throwing science out.

More importantly, the ultimate cause and nature isn't a scientific question. It's a philosophical question.

no it isn't.

Belief systems like Pantheism and Panentheism do not have gods throwing lighting bolts or dressing in white robes.
You can can complain 'till the cows come home about Thor and Zeus, but they have nothing to do with this fundamental and very legitimate philosophical question:

Given that we have imperfect information, is it a better choice to believe a rational and lawful universe was caused by the irrational, inanimate and immaterial? Or is it a better explanation that logically the rational and lawful can only come from the rational and purposeful?

secret option c.
admit you don't know.

religion is about morality, not explaining physics.

The mathematical laws of mechanics tell you nothing about the ultimate origin and purpose of the Universe. Even Isaac Newton understood this.

right.

why do you keep mixing them together?

You can claim you don't know, but your statements clearly show you have decided on a belief system. You believe nothing exists but matter and energy, and that a rational, lawful universe can only be caused by the inanimate and irrational.

you keep saying that, not he.

Its sounds to me like you marvel at how flawed and defective the universe, the Earth, and humans are.

But the fact is, if you had never read some article by an atheist complaining that our eyesight and bone structure are massively flawed, it would never have occurred to you that anything was seriously wrong. Assuming you are healthy, you would have on balance marveled at your eyesight and vision, and taken great delight in the capabilities of your body.

your observations and statements are retarded.

you're extremely stupid.

why?

 

[Into the Night]

Yep ....

Derp!
Derp!
Derp!

Lost context again, eh?

 

[Into the Night]

My use of derp is to let you know that I've seen your post and the "playing dumb" and am giving it the appropriate response.

Your use of "Derp" is because you have lost context again.

 

[ZenMode]

Lost context again, eh?

Nope, just giving your ridiculous post the ridiculous response it deserves.

I don't believe in a creator. I'm also not Christian, Catholic or apart of any other religion that, again, tried to retro fit evolution into the ridiculous biblical creation story by manufacturing the idea of "intelligent design".