Archaeology of the New Testament

Cypress said:
You're right. I've heard Dawkins say it's not unreasonable to believe in some kind Jeffersonian diestic version of a creator.
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Agreed. There's the dogma, which is human perception of a power greater than the Universe itself, and then there's the understanding that all of this is temporary, even the Universe and created by a power we can barely understand.

People who declare "I know what God wants" are as self-deluding as those who declare "when you're dead, you're dead".
 
ZenMode said:
Like I said previously, I'm fine saying we don't know how the universe came into existence. That's a much more honest response than resorting to the actions of ancient man and explaining all of the unexplainable by making up magical beings.

Also, if an all-knowing being so meticulously planned the universe and mankind, maybe he could have designed it a little better so...
  • our primary light source didn't cause cancer,
  • the Earth didn't have faults that cause earthquakes/tsunamis and mass death.
  • we don't use the same pipe for breathing and swallowing food
  • our eyesight and hearing didn't degrade over time
  • humans are given the ability to regrow limbs rather than giving that ability to lizards, salamanders and lobsters.
  • not wired our retinas backwards, causing a blind spot in every human.
  • designed the human body to walk upright. our current design was originally meant for animals who walk on four legs, so walking on two puts extreme pressure on the spine, causing chronic back pain.
  • humans are entirely dependent on external dietary sources for vitamin C because we lack a gene to synthesize vitamin C. Most other mammals can produce their own.
Just a couple thoughts on our finely tuned world/universe.
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@Cypress

A couple more "finely tuned" items....
  • Wisdom teeth - ancient man had a differently structured jaw that allowed space for them. Few people have space today and they become very painful if not removed
  • Appendix: virtually unnecessary for modern man, but still exists and is known to become swollen and burst, risking the life of its carrier.
  • 99.9999999999% of the universe is a vacuum that will immediately kill biological life.
  • The universe is riddled with random pieces of space debris, that is a consistently impacting planets not to mention black holes and deadly radiation.
  • Our DNA is designed in such a way that it's susceptible to sudden mutations that cause disease and cancer.
Tell me more about this fine tuning.
 
Cypress said:
I try to always follow the evidence towards the best explanation.

There is zero evidence Jesus was born in the year zero on December 25.

There is substantial manuscript evidence suggesting Jesus was born around 4 to 6 BC.
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how could he be born 4 to 6 years before himself?
you suck at rationality.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed. There's the dogma, which is human perception of a power greater than the Universe itself, and then there's the understanding that all of this is temporary, even the Universe and created by a power we can barely understand.

People who declare "I know what God wants" are as self-deluding as those who declare "when you're dead, you're dead".
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Good point.
Einstein studiously avoided throwing his lot in with atheism. He famously said the most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it's comprehensible.

I've heard atheist Richard Dawkins even say that the universe "appears designed" based on it's lawful, rational organization. He just doesn't want to go so far as to accept that it is designed.
 
Ichabod Stain said:
how could he be born 4 to 6 years before himself?
you suck at rationality.
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The year zero and December 25 are arbitrary traditions passed down to us by the Church.

People with rational minds who think like historians and scientists tend to conclude the manuscript evidence points to Jesus being born a few years before the year Zero.
 
ZenMode said:
@Cypress

A couple more "finely tuned" items....
  • Wisdom teeth - ancient man had a differently structured jaw that allowed space for them. Few people have space today and they become very painful if not removed
  • Appendix: virtually unnecessary for modern man, but still exists and is known to become swollen and burst, risking the life of its carrier.
  • 99.9999999999% of the universe is a vacuum that will immediately kill biological life.
  • The universe is riddled with random pieces of space debris, that is a consistently impacting planets not to mention black holes and deadly radiation.
  • Our DNA is designed in such a way that it's susceptible to sudden mutations that cause disease and cancer.
Tell me more about this fine tuning.
Click to expand...
There are no universal mathematical laws of physics or universal constants that apply to wisdom teeth and biological matter.

Physics is the only science that so far has discovered universal mathematical relationships and laws governing all matter and energy. Fine tuning, as used by cosmologists, refers to the strange convergence of universal physical mathematical properties that allow for the existence of a stable universe and the nucleosynthesis of atomic matter.
 
Cypress said:
There are no universal mathematical laws of physics or universal constants that apply to wisdom teeth and biological matter.

Physics is the only science that so far has discovered universal mathematical relationships and laws governing all matter and energy. Fine tuning, as used by cosmologists, refers to the strange convergence of universal physical mathematical properties that allow for the existence of a stable universe and the nucleosynthesis of atomic matter.
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It's all about the "intelligent designer" angle. Why is 99.99999% of the universe completely uninhabitable and actively ends biological life?

Why would an intelligent designer have such a poorly designed/thought out universe and then create humans even more flawed?
 
ZenMode said:
It's all about the "intelligent designer" angle. Why is 99.99999% of the universe completely uninhabitable and actively ends biological life?
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Maybe Earth is special.
ZenMode said:
Why would an intelligent designer have such a poorly designed/thought out universe and then create humans even more flawed?
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The densely packed information-bearing molecule DNA and the existence of consciousness are so complex and unfathomable, scientifically-oriented people constantly marvel at them. It is widely accepted we we never fully understand the origin and magnificence of DNA and consciousness.
 
ZenMode said:
It's all about the "intelligent designer" angle. Why is 99.99999% of the universe completely uninhabitable and actively ends biological life?
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What makes you think the Universe was created or 'designed'?
ZenMode said:
Why would an intelligent designer have such a poorly designed/thought out universe and then create humans even more flawed?
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What makes you think the Universe was created or 'designed'?

The Universe is a random dust cloud. It is not organized. It is not 'designed'. It has no known boundaries.
 
Cypress said:
Maybe Earth is special.

The densely packed information-bearing molecule DNA and the existence of consciousness are so complex and unfathomable, scientifically-oriented people constantly marvel at them. It is widely accepted we we never fully understand the origin and magnificence of DNA and consciousness.
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WE may not understand DNA, but a being who designed a solution involving DNA would certainly, as the creator, understand it inside and out.

Also, the Intelligent Designer didn't HAVE to use DNA, right? The ID has unlimited options at his disposal for how to design the human being. The ID didn't have to give bipeds a spine and knees designed for quadrupeds. The ID didn't have to make our primary light source cancer-causing. The ID didn't have to use DNA or use DNA that is susceptible to mutation, right?
 
Cypress said:
Maybe Earth is special.
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Earth is definitely special!
Cypress said:
The densely packed information-bearing molecule DNA and the existence of consciousness are so complex and unfathomable, scientifically-oriented people constantly marvel at them. It is widely accepted we we never fully understand the origin and magnificence of DNA and consciousness.
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DNA is not consciousness.
DNA still exists in a person that is asleep or pass out.
DNA still exists in a dead person.
DNA is not a brain.
 
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