Deep Green Freeze

[T. A. Gardner]

Is it?

Negative electricity prices: lockdown’s demand slump exposes inflexibility of German power
In Germany, a slump in demand plus an exceptionally sunny and windy few months sent wholesale electricity prices negative and to record lows.
https://energypost.eu/negative-elec...-slump-exposes-inflexibility-of-german-power/

You're here telling me Germany is always overcast and in perpetual darkness, but the EU says that isn't true.

So only one of you is lying.

The one reason for the high tax rate in Germany is to pay the subsidies for solar, wind, and the smart grid...

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The wind usually does blow, so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about here.




So you're saying it's always 100% overcast in Germany and they have 24 hours of night?

Guess what the forecast is in Berlin today? 51 degrees and sunny.

https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Germany/annual-hours-of-sunshine.php

Berlin averages about 4.5 hours of sunshine per day annually as one example... Overcast and cloudy skies are the norm for Germany.

https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/germany

 

[LV426]

The one reason for the high tax rate in Germany is to pay the subsidies for solar, wind, and the smart grid...

Your chart is from 2019.

My link is from 2020.

Is time linear?

 

[LV426]

Berlin averages about 4.5 hours of sunshine per day annually as one example... Overcast and cloudy skies are the norm for Germany.

So they do get sunshine, then. The forecast today is sunshine. 5 day forecast has nothing but sunshine.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Your chart is from 2019.

My link is from 2020.

Is time linear?

So, you attempt a logical fallacy as a comeback. That aside, you didn't read your article did you?

From it:

But Jones said recurring strongly negative power prices are a “sign of a dysfunctional market” and could eventually result in electricity system instability. He added negative prices also translate into high costs especially for smaller electricity consumers such as households and small businesses, because they ultimately have to pay the difference between negative power prices and the feed-in tariffs fixed in advance for most renewable installations in auctions or other contracts.

There was also nothing within it on the retail price of electricity to end consumers.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

So they do get sunshine, then. The forecast today is sunshine. 5 day forecast has nothing but sunshine.

Texas sharpshooter fallacy.

 

[LV426]

So, you attempt a logical fallacy as a comeback

You're like...Germany pays more for energy than anyone else...according to this chart from 2019.

And then I'm like, no they don't and here's the proof.

There was also nothing within it on the retail price of electricity to end consumers.

So this is you resetting the parameters of the conversation because you were speaking vaguely and broadly before.

You took us down a path that didn't quite work out for you, so now you're shifting the goalposts on what you meant because what you said before was inaccurate.

So if you're going to keep doing this, then I'm going to keep calling you out for acting in bad faith and for not being trustworthy in your sourcing.

 

[Nordberg]

Did they figure out how to get them to work when the wind isn't blowing...?



So what have they done to mitigate 100% overcast and that thing called night...?

Oh, and why is Germany's electricity the most expensive of any industrialized nation...?

Did we figure out how to provide energy when it is cold and snowing in Texas? It is no mystery. The Texans ignored the problems until it crippled the state. They did not winterize because energy companies wanted the profits now. That is why we should not privatize essential functions of the state and nation. Prisons are another example of how for-profit prisons will do less and less care to make higher and higher profits. We have had nuclear plant problem due to cost-cutting. We have coal plants that spew poisons into the air to make more profits.
What we require is more and stronger regulation with real teeth in them. You cannot trust corporations to do the right thing.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You're like...Germany pays more for energy than anyone else...according to this chart from 2019.

And then I'm like, no they don't and here's the proof.

Wholesale prices don't reflect what's paid by the consumer. Your article is about wholesale prices and even it says consumers get raped on price.

So this is you resetting the parameters of the conversation because you were speaking vaguely and broadly before.

So if you're going to keep doing this, then I'm going to keep calling you out for acting in bad faith and for not being trustworthy in your sourcing.

No, consumer retail price is what matters not the market wholesale price. That's just an intermediary step in the chain. As I pointed out, even the article you cited, and didn't read apparently, says this.

 

[LV426]

Texas sharpshooter fallacy.

I notice how you keep leaning on these declarations of what is a fallacy and what isn't, without having the authority to make that determination yourself.

You INFERRED that it was always overcast and nighttime in Germany, and when given the actual forecast, you unilaterally decide you're not going to accept it.

The link I gave you said that Germany had an exceptionally SUNNY and WINDY 2020, contrary to your claims that Germany is in perpetual darkness and also, somehow, perpetually cloudy?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Did we figure out how to provide energy when it is cold and snowing in Texas? It is no mystery. The Texans ignored the problems until it crippled the state. They did not winterize because energy companies wanted the profits now. That is why we should not privatize essential functions of the state and nation. Prisons are another example of how for-profit prisons will do less and less care to make higher and higher profits. We have had nuclear plant problem due to cost-cutting. We have coal plants that spew poisons into the air to make more profits.
What we require is more and stronger regulation with real teeth in them. You cannot trust corporations to do the right thing.

They did not winterize because they have never had a winter storm like this one hit the state. What you are arguing in essence is that Alaskans should all install air conditioners because it might be possible that the temperature will hit 90 degrees there for a day or two in some future, unspecified, year...

 

[T. A. Gardner]

I notice how you keep leaning on these declarations of what is a fallacy and what isn't, without having the authority to make that determination yourself.

You INFERRED that it was always overcast and nighttime in Germany, and when given the actual forecast, you unilaterally decide you're not going to accept it.

The link I gave you said that Germany had an exceptionally SUNNY and WINDY 2020, contrary to your claims that Germany is in perpetual darkness and also, somehow, perpetually cloudy?

Wrong. I gave two links that show the predicted weather year round in Germany. You supplied a few cherry picked days and claimed that's the norm for Germany. Your claims amount to a Texas Sharpshooter fallacy.

 

[LV426]

Wholesale prices don't reflect what's paid by the consumer.

So now you're moving the goalposts...which is what you do in every single debate with me.

You start off by saying something inaccurate, broad, and vague, then as that something is knocked around for a bit, you start establishing weird standards and parameters that you then shift depending on how your argument is faring.

This thread is a perfect example of that kind of bad faith that I find so contemptuous.

Why can't you just say what you mean the first time?

Why do you always have to play these juvenile games with me?

Why can't you just be fucking honest?

Your article is about wholesale prices and even it says consumers get raped on price.

YOU SAID, broadly, that Germany pays more than anyone else. Then, when given evidence that broad claim is untrue, you start wiggling around within the parameters of what you fucking meant.

It's so tiring with you because you do this all the time.

Not a single one of your arguments are consistent. NOT ONE. You constantly are having to redefine the parameters, which end up changing your entire argument.

I'm beginning to think you're doing it on purpose.

 

[LV426]

No, consumer retail price is what matters not the market wholesale price.

See, this is exactly what I mean when I say that you establish weird standards post hoc as you continually redefine the parameters of what you meant to say.

So because you do that, no one can take anything you say as the full truth, can they?

So you're now here telling me what is important for your argument isn't the wholesale price, it's parsing out the consumer price.

Well, that wasn't what you said before, and now you're just trying to retcon your argument so you don't have to admit the thing we both know: you're full of shit.

 

[LV426]

Wrong. I gave two links that show the predicted weather year round in Germany. .

PREDICTED.

So now you're hanging your hat on a prediction while ignoring the fact that your last prediction was completely wrong, since Germany experienced more sun and more wind last year than normal.

You supplied a few cherry picked days

I just used today's forecast and the forecast for the next five days.

You're the one who cherry picked data from 2019, remember? You posted that chart. From 2019. Which was two years ago. After which, Germany experienced more sun and wind that resulted in the negative pricing that my link discussed.

Your claims amount to a Texas Sharpshooter fallacy.

You're the one basing your entire argument on outdated information that you cherry picked for this thread.

 

[redfish]

Have you never heard of shovels before?

And Germany ended up de-icing those windmills and weatherizing them, and now they work fine.

Why hasn't Texas done the same?

they probably will. When they were installed they were designed for normal Texas climates, this last cold snap was not normal by any measure. Shovels on a glass surface solar panel--------yeah, when pigs fly

 

[LV426]

they probably will.

Well, they didn't after the 2011 storm, so I don't really have any reason to believe they will after this one.

They all think what happened in Texas the last week is a big Chinese hoax.

When they were installed they were designed for normal Texas climates, this last cold snap was not normal by any measure.

Not entirely true there because they suffered a similar storm back in 2011 and all the same recommendations made now were made back then.

What happened in Texas is the new normal. They are only going to see more, not less, of these kinds of weather events.

Shovels on a glass surface solar panel

Have you ever used a shovel before?

 

[LV426]

Shovels on a glass surface solar panel--------yeah, when pigs fly

So how do you get the snow off your car's windshield today?

Or do you just pretend that there's no snow on it?

Cause I use either a plastic shovel, or the plastic ice scraper in my glove box.

 

[redfish]

Well, they didn't after the 2011 storm, so I don't really have any reason to believe they will after this one.

They all think what happened in Texas the last week is a big Chinese hoax.




Not entirely true there because they suffered a similar storm back in 2011 and all the same recommendations made now were made back then.

What happened in Texas is the new normal. They are only going to see more, not less, of these kinds of weather events.




Have you ever used a shovel before?

you are a waste of my time and typing skills

 

[Nordberg]

They did not winterize because they have never had a winter storm like this one hit the state. What you are arguing in essence is that Alaskans should all install air conditioners because it might be possible that the temperature will hit 90 degrees there for a day or two in some future, unspecified, year...

Yes, there were storms like this and they were predicted in the future.https://www.weather.gov/maf/The_Coldest_Night_in_Texas Texas was tun by anti-regulation Repubs. The commission refused to force energy to winterize.