Deep Green Freeze

[Nordberg]

Here are more Texas cold weather spells. https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/w...ist-of-all-the-record-cold-texas-temperatures

 

[Into the Night]

Gas and power prices have spiked across the central U.S. while Texas regulators ordered rolling blackouts Monday as an Arctic blast has frozen wind turbines. Herein is the paradox of the left’s climate agenda: The less we use fossil fuels, the more we need them.

A mix of ice and snow swept across the country this weekend as temperatures plunged below zero in the upper Midwest and into the teens in Houston. Cold snaps happen—the U.S. also experienced a Polar Vortex in 2019—as do heat waves. Yet the power grid is becoming less reliable due to growing reliance on wind and solar, which can’t provide power 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Texas’s energy emergency could last all week as the weather is forecast to remain frigid. “My understanding is, the wind turbines are all frozen,” Public Utility Commission Chairman DeAnn Walker said Friday. “We are working already to try and ensure we have enough power but it’s taken a lot of coordination.”

Wind’s share has tripled to about 25% since 2010 and accounted for 42% of power last week before the freeze set in. About half of Texans rely on electric pumps for heating, which liberals want to mandate everywhere. But the pumps use a lot of power in frigid weather. So while wind turbines were freezing, demand for power was surging.

California progressives long ago banished coal. But a heat wave last summer strained the state’s power grid as wind flagged and solar ebbed in the evenings. After imposing rolling blackouts, grid regulators resorted to importing coal power from Utah and running diesel emergency generators.

Liberals claim that prices of renewables and fossil fuels are now comparable, which may be true due to subsidies, but they are no free lunch, as this week’s energy emergency shows.
The Biden Administration’s plan to banish fossil fuels is a greater existential threat to Americans than climate change.
https://www.thestreet.com/mishtalk/...o-we-do-when-the-wind-turbines-are-all-frozen

It should be pointed out that much of the power problem in Texas isn't due to the loss of wind power, but due to the power distribution system being damaged by heavy ice, including large sections of the high tension system.

 

[Into the Night]

This is actually a graph of random numbers. It is not possible to measure how much CO2 is due to man's activities, nor the global atmospheric CO2 (or even that of a nation).
CO2 is not distributed uniformly in the atmosphere. It h as no tag to say it came from a power plant or from someone exhaling or was vented by a volcano.

These numbers are speculations. Or,in other words, fabrications from someone's imagination.

 

[Into the Night]

wind and solar are not happening in Tx today.
The US has led the world on carbon reduction -why are we slavishly going to let Paris dictate what we are already successfully doing by ourselves?

Nothing wrong with carbon. Nothing wrong with carbon dioxide either (they are two different materials).

No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth. Energy cannot be created out of nothing.

 

[Nordberg]

It should be pointed out that a report done 10 years ago said the state should winterize its energy systems and its grid. Texas did not. That is why they are not on the national grid. They refused to do it. This means it is the leadership's fault. The wind companies should sue those blaming it on them. It is a lie.

 

[Into the Night]

4 million customers without power in Tx. all as a result of stupid laws forcing nat gas off line replaced by renewables. we need to understand this is what happens when you use renewables as primary power.

Renewable have a place in a diversified energy portfolio - but not as a primary supply

As a primary supply. Both oil and natural gas are renewable forms of energy. They are also some of the cheapest sources of power, watt for watt.
Wind is the 2nd most expensive form of power. Solar is the most expensive.

 

[Into the Night]

Besides the impact on households, the cold is wreaking havoc on the energy industry itself. U.S. oil production has dropped by well over a million barrels a day, helping U.S. crude prices trade above $60 a barrel for the first time in more than year. The region’s refining complex -- which produces almost half of the nation’s fuel -- is struggling to limp along without power and gas supplies. Some of the largest oil refineries have shut altogether, threatening to reduce supplies of gasoline and diesel across the country.

Natural gas production has also been curtailed just as the cold caused demand to jump. At the Waha hub in Texas gas changed hands at $500 per million British thermal units on Monday, more than 100 times the price at the Henry Hub, the benchmark for the wider U.S.

Power plants with a combined capacity of more than 34 gigawatts were forced offline on Monday, including nuclear reactors, coal and gas generators and wind farms. It’s not yet clear why. Early on Tuesday, power generation in Texas had yet to stage any significant recovery.

Wind power generators were among the victims of the cold weather, with turbine blades rendered inoperable due to ice -- a phenomenon that reduces efficiency and can ultimately stop them from spinning. Texas estimated that more than half of its wind power capacity had come offline.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...eashes-brutal-cold-over-u-s-with-more-to-come

At times, parts of Texas were colder than Alaska, according to the National Weather Service. In the Dallas-Fort Worth area it was 5 degrees Fahrenheit. Houston may pick up as much as 2 inches (5 centimeters) of snow overnight, along with ice and sleet, the National Weather Service said. It will get hit by another storm bringing ice and freezing rain Wednesday.

Neither Texas nor Alaska have a single temperature.
Coastal towns like Anchorage are marine climates. They don't get all that cold. They do get a lot of snow in the winter, but that has more to do with the moisture available.
Boise,ID; a desert town, can often get colder than Anchorage.

The cold in Texas is unusual, but it's not unprecedented. This ice storm is particularly bad due to the widespread damage to power lines, and to the loss of a very expensive form of power, but it's not the first Texas freeze.

 

[Into the Night]

Look on the bright side: maybe Phantasmal and Zappa will freeze to death.

I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

 

[Legion]

I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

I would.

 

[Into the Night]

All alternative energy comes down to a reliable way of storing it for when needed. Thermal Solar (the only one worth a rats ass) uses molten salts. Days of storage. Alternative energies have to be utilized with another form of proven energy source for times like this. None of this is hard to understand. To anyone other than a democrat politician and their rather blind constituents.

Molten salts are not energy storage.

What you are talking about is called ballasting. Using batteries, pumping water uphill for later use, etc; all store energy.

Batteries are susceptible to cold temperatures. They are electrochemical devices, and the chemistry requires higher temperatures to work effectively.
Why weak batteries in cars tend to fail in winter as temperatures drop. Why starters aren't just as peppy in cold temperatures, even with a new battery.

Ballasting is just a 'tank'. it is not the energy source itself. Ballasting systems are additional costs (they're not cheap!).

 

[Into the Night]

Your chart is from 2019.

My link is from 2020.

Is time linear?

Time is linear.

 

[Into the Night]

You're like...Germany pays more for energy than anyone else...according to this chart from 2019.

And then I'm like, no they don't and here's the proof.




So this is you resetting the parameters of the conversation because you were speaking vaguely and broadly before.

You took us down a path that didn't quite work out for you, so now you're shifting the goalposts on what you meant because what you said before was inaccurate.

So if you're going to keep doing this, then I'm going to keep calling you out for acting in bad faith and for not being trustworthy in your sourcing.

Inversion fallacy. You are describing yourself again.

 

[Into the Night]

Did we figure out how to provide energy when it is cold and snowing in Texas? It is no mystery. The Texans ignored the problems until it crippled the state. They did not winterize because energy companies wanted the profits now. That is why we should not privatize essential functions of the state and nation. Prisons are another example of how for-profit prisons will do less and less care to make higher and higher profits. We have had nuclear plant problem due to cost-cutting. We have coal plants that spew poisons into the air to make more profits.
What we require is more and stronger regulation with real teeth in them. You cannot trust corporations to do the right thing.

Burning coal produces nothing but CO2. It is not a poison.
Modern nuclear power is quite safe, even in the face of natural disasters.
Corporations may or may not do the right thing. You are being a bigot.

Corporations brought us cheap fuel, such as coal, oil, and natural gas.
Corporations brought us cheap computers, which you are using even now.
Corporations brought us cheap cars, buses, trains, aircraft, trucks, and even ships.
Corporations run farms. distribute food, and even serve it in restaurants.
Corporations build the roads, sewer systems,that toilet you sit your butt down on, the lumber and concrete for where you live, plastic products that go into everything from computers,cars, desks, clothing, TV sets, carpets, LEDs, wind farms, solar panels, heating systems, video game consoles,...

Regulations do nothing to create any product.

 

[Into the Night]

I notice how you keep leaning on these declarations of what is a fallacy and what isn't, without having the authority to make that determination yourself.

He does have the authority. He has himself.That's all the authority he needs. The use of logic doesn't require an authority. Elitism fallacy.

You INFERRED that it was always overcast and nighttime in Germany,

Nope. He said is it usually overcast in Germany. He is correct. Germany also has night time like anywhere else.

nd when given the actual forecast, you unilaterally decide you're not going to accept it.

Texas sharpshooter fallacy (a type of divisional error fallacy).

The link I gave you said that Germany had an exceptionally SUNNY and WINDY 2020, contrary to your claims that Germany is in perpetual darkness and also, somehow, perpetually cloudy?

He never said Germany never had sunny days. Extreme argument fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Wrong. I gave two links that show the predicted weather year round in Germany. You supplied a few cherry picked days and claimed that's the norm for Germany. Your claims amount to a Texas Sharpshooter fallacy.

You are quite right. That's exactly what it is. Good call.

 

[Into the Night]

So now you're moving the goalposts...

Fallacy fallacy. Inversion fallacy. He has moved nothing. It is YOU moving goalposts.

which is what you do in every single debate with me.

Bulverism fallacy.

You start off by saying something inaccurate, broad, and vague,

Inversion fallacy. You are describing yourself again.

then as that something is knocked around for a bit, you start establishing weird standards and parameters that you then shift depending on how your argument is faring.

Fallacy fallacy. Inversion fallacy.

This thread is a perfect example of that kind of bad faith that I find so contemptuous.

Paradox. Irrational. You cannot argue both sides of a paradox. YOU make contemptuous posts, then complain about it.

Why can't you just say what you mean the first time?

He does.

Why do you always have to play these juvenile games with me?

Inversion fallacy. It is YOU playing juvenile games.

Why can't you just be fucking honest?

He is.

YOU SAID, broadly, that Germany pays more than anyone else.

It does.

Then, when given evidence that broad claim is untrue, you start wiggling around within the parameters of what you fucking meant.

Nope. That's YOU.

It's so tiring with you because you do this all the time.

Bulverism fallacy.

Not a single one of your arguments are consistent. NOT ONE.

irrelevance fallacy. Inversion fallacy.

You constantly are having to redefine the parameters, which end up changing your entire argument.

Semantics fallacy.

I'm beginning to think you're doing it on purpose.

Persecution complex. It is YOU, dude. YOU are changing context, picking and choosing exceptions to try to prove a rule, projecting YOUR problems on other people, etc.

 

[Into the Night]

See, this is exactly what I mean when I say that you establish weird standards post hoc as you continually redefine the parameters of what you meant to say.

So because you do that, no one can take anything you say as the full truth, can they?

So you're now here telling me what is important for your argument isn't the wholesale price, it's parsing out the consumer price.

Well, that wasn't what you said before, and now you're just trying to retcon your argument so you don't have to admit the thing we both know: you're full of shit.

Consumer price is based on wholesale prices, dumbass.

 

[Into the Night]

PREDICTED.

So now you're hanging your hat on a prediction while ignoring the fact that your last prediction was completely wrong, since Germany experienced more sun and more wind last year than normal.

I just used today's forecast and the forecast for the next five days.

Texas sharpshooter fallacy.

You're the one who cherry picked data from 2019, remember? You posted that chart. From 2019. Which was two years ago. After which, Germany experienced more sun and wind that resulted in the negative pricing that my link discussed.

Fallacy fallacy. He used current figures.

You're the one basing your entire argument on outdated information that you cherry picked for this thread.

2019 is reasonably current figures.

 

[Into the Night]

they probably will. When they were installed they were designed for normal Texas climates, this last cold snap was not normal by any measure. Shovels on a glass surface solar panel--------yeah, when pigs fly

Deicing wind generators require the use of helicopters (which burn fuel), spraying a de-icing compound (made from oil products) onto windmill blades (made from oil products). I'd love to see someone try to shovel snow off solar panels!

 

[Into the Night]

It should be pointed out that a report done 10 years ago said the state should winterize its energy systems and its grid. Texas did not. That is why they are not on the national grid. They refused to do it. This means it is the leadership's fault. The wind companies should sue those blaming it on them. It is a lie.

There is no such thing as 'the national grid'.