Did Russian Interference Affect the 2016 Election Results?

LV426 said:
I like politicians.

I like Elizabeth Warren.

I like Bernie Sanders.

I like AOC.

You make a lot of poor assumptions here; you speak in absolutes, then act in bad faith when you're called out.
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No rational person thinks these are absolutes. It is unnecessary to include "most" or "many" before each sentence. Only those who take everything literally. But it is widely true, and not only in the U. S.

Trolled online, abused in person: politicians don't deserve this hatred ...
https://www.theguardian.com/.../trolls-online-abuse-person-politicians-dont-deserve-h...

Why do some people hate politicians? - Quora
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-people-hate-politicians

Why the public can't stand today's politicians - Telegraph
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/.../Why-the-public-cant-stand-todays-politicians.html

Trust in politicians and government is at an all-time low. The next ...
theconversation.com/trust-in-politicians-and-government-is-at-an-all-time-low-the-ne...

Why is there so much hate for career politicians ...
https://www.reddit.com/.../PoliticalDiscussion/.../why_is_there_so_much_hate_for_car...

This week's big questions: Why do people hate politicians? Should ...
https://www.independent.co.uk › Voices › Comment

Why Politicians Are Hated – werewolf
werewolf.co.nz/2014/07/why-politicians-are-hated/

Beyond Distrust: How Americans View Their Government | Pew ...
https://www.people-press.org/.../beyond-distrust-how-americans-view-their-governme...

A surprising number of Americans dislike how messy democracy is ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../a-surprising-number-of-americans-dislike-how-m..
 
LV426 said:
What favor?

And how does sharing polling data on US elections repay a favor unless that data was to be used in some way to interfere in the election?

Come on...you know what the answer is...just say it.

How does sharing polling data from MI, WI, and PA "repay" Kilimnik for a favor he did?

And what favor did Kilimnik do that caused Manafort to feel obligated to share seemingly random polling data with a guy who has nothing to do with the US election?

Your weirdo explanation is only opening up more difficult questions for you to answer.
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like i said it's speculation

Actually, you don't know that. He looks to have been reporting to both sides because that's what untrustworthy people do.
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he had no active ties to Russia, he worked for Ukraine politicians
 
Sailor said:
There is no way you read that at all, though you are implying differently. Or just being dishonest. All you have to do is read the first paragraph on page 66. Pay attention to the very last sentence. Sinks your boat right to the bottom.
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Why, not a tough read, you can even skim it and see the obvious, Russians were all over the Trump campaign, and the Trump campaign had no problem with it, and that is the point

As your reference highlights, they might not have coordinated the contacts, but the contacts were there, and the Trump campaign welcomed Russian help, built it into their campaign, never reported it, made full use of it, and when exposed, lied about it
 
LV426 said:
Yes!

I believe he is that fucking stupid, and he knows dumbasses like you will toil that baggage for him because that's what you're doing right now!
Wow. "Useful Idiot" is exactly what you are.
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he would be exposing himself to treason. now add in the fact there was no Russian collusion -that leaves only bombastic rhetoric
 
archives said:
Why, not a tough read, you can even skim it and see the obvious, Russians were all over the Trump campaign, and the Trump campaign had no problem with it, and that is the point

As your reference highlights, they might not have coordinated the contacts, but the contacts were there, and the Trump campaign welcomed Russian help, built it into their campaign, never reported it, made full use of it, and when exposed, lied about it
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How about you just post that last sentence, first paragraph, page 66. It certainly does not agree with what you are trying to sell.
 
archives said:
Why, not a tough read, you can even skim it and see the obvious, Russians were all over the Trump campaign, and the Trump campaign had no problem with it, and that is the point

As your reference highlights, they might not have coordinated the contacts, but the contacts were there, and the Trump campaign welcomed Russian help, built it into their campaign, never reported it, made full use of it, and when exposed, lied about it
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what "built in?" "never reported" what that needed to be reported? made use of what? how?

but then you probably think Wikileaks is a Russian asset like Hillary does
 
Earl said:
Page 173 V I: “Ultimately, the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities.“

No collusion and insufficient evidence to pursue obstruction.

Most of the sane Americans have moved on.

“Case closed,” McConnell
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Nope. The fact that Russia had a large scale project going to help Trump remains. Whether they got sufficient evidence to charge Trump people is not responsive to the thread. Ask Manafort is there were no ties when he gets out of jail. The Mueller report does show the size and intent of the Russian operation. The election was very close. There is no doubt that Putin made Trump president. Trump owes him and it shows.
 
LV426 said:
I have never, and will never vote for the GOP. Ever.
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Exactly my point. Propaganda, campaign money, or even Russian interference is not going to affect your vote. And nothing is going to change the votes of Republicans. Campaign ads are aimed at influencing the relatively small number of undecided voters--but to assume it changed votes from Hillary to Trump is naive.

Hillary has been disliked for years---that is why Obama beat her for the 2008 nomination. Or, did the Russians interfere to swing the nomination for Obama? So Russian propaganda was not needed to create a negative view of Clinton.

Loyal Democratic groups like blacks turned out in low numbers in places like WI. If she had gotten the same black turnout as Obama she would have won. Those black voters did not vote for Trump.

LV426 said:
OK, so propaganda does work, then, and you're admitting now that it influences how people decide who they're going to vote for. So why are you arguing with me that they're not?
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There is that literal mindset again. It affects a very small percentage of voters.

LV426 said:
And they made the choice to vote for independents why? Because of the propaganda from Conservatives and Russia about Clinton.
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And some because of propaganda from liberals. It was because Trump and Clinton both had negative ratings meaning a majority of voters did not like either one of them. It doesn't take Russian propaganda to dislike Hillary or Trump.

Is that why you didn't vote for Trump? Propaganda from the left?
 
archives said:
Fact is that they couldn't document actually voting records being changed proves nothing, it is like saying campaigns, political advertising, speeches, door to door meetings, gym rallies, etc., have no effect on elections cause no one can document that they changed anyone's vote
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Russian efforts were minimal.. also we now know the Internet Research Agency was not tied to the Kremlin..

This whole Russian meme was cooked up by Mooks and Podesta a couple days after the election
 
archives said:
Wrong, wrong, and wrong, that's kinda like striking out all in one post

How could it be a hoax when the Mueller report beginning on page 62 has documented over a hundred contacts and relations between the Trump campaign and Russians, in fact, if you actually read the primary source rather than listening to Sean, you'd see Russians were all over the Trump campaign, they seemingly did everything but park cards

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5955118/The-Mueller-Report.pdf
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This from a clown who has NEVER been right about anything.

For the simple FACT that after almost TWO years and $30 million, he found NOTHING. From the report you moron:

Mueller Report; Page 173 V I: Ultimately, the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities.

Barr: Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and I have concluded that the evidence developed during the Special Counsel's investigation is not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense.

archives said:
As I just said, the facts are all there, Mueller even has a special section entitled, "RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT LINKS AND CONTACTS WITH THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN," and he follows with 136 pages documenting such
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Which has NOTHING to do with changing one single fucking vote you idiot.

archives said:
And all over the Founding Fathers' writings there is warnings on foreign influences in our Gov't, especially elections
(https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed68.asp) (https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-12-02-0405)

Three strikes and you are out

(time now for the insults and corny copy and paste pictures/videos)
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You really are too stupid for words. :laugh:
 
Gonzomin said:
Nope. The fact that Russia had a large scale project going to help Trump remains. Whether they got sufficient evidence to charge Trump people is not responsive to the thread. Ask Manafort is there were no ties when he gets out of jail. The Mueller report does show the size and intent of the Russian operation. The election was very close. There is no doubt that Putin made Trump president. Trump owes him and it shows.
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You might find this analysis of 3 million (Yes, million) Russian troll tweets interesting too.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-you-found-in-3-million-russian-troll-tweets/
 
reagansghost said:
really, post a link proving Mueller pronounced him innocent of Obstruction of Justice

go
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You’re not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you lol.

A prosecutor either charges—or not. Try to think of it as an off/on switch: it’s either off or it’s on. There’s no kinda/sorta on or off. It’s either off or it’s on. Similarly, it’s unlike a game of horseshoes where the prosecutor scores points for being close to the peg. He has sufficient evidence to bring a charge—or he doesn’t. And Mullet didn’t.

I hope that helps.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
You might also like this. BTW, on NBC Nightly News this evening, they showed several viral videos that were popular during 2016 -- all of them fanning the flames of racism and put out there by Russian Twitter troll accounts.
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Thanks for the article. I have seen similar stories about U. S. firms hired to influence certain issues that when many posts appear, for example, against an issue that site is flooded with posts supporting that issue.

Did those viral videos or 3 million tweets influence your vote?
 
reagansghost said:
Obviously
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And your evidence is? Nobody has a clue whether it influenced any votes or not. As one would expect, the left thinks it did and the right thinks it did not. Ideology determines that view, not any evidence.

The government has brought charges for interference in the 2018 election. Does that mean 1) the Russians helped the Democrats to win the House; 2) the Democrats would have won, anyway, but their gains were higher because of Russian influence; 3) Russian interference did not affect the result?
 
Flash said:
And your evidence is? Nobody has a clue whether it influenced any votes or not. As one would expect, the left thinks it did and the right thinks it did not. Ideology determines that view, not any evidence.

The government has brought charges for interference in the 2018 election. Does that mean 1) the Russians helped the Democrats to win the House; 2) the Democrats would have won, anyway, but their gains were higher because of Russian influence; 3) Russian interference did not affect the result?
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How many angels can dance on the head of a pin lol?

Look, all anyone needs to do is take the one Mullet-finding that no one questions—or has reason to question: the Russians were out to sew discord in our politics.

Start with that, and ask this question: which created more discord, the 3 million Tweets or the Steele Dossier gathered from Russian sources?
 
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