Happy Pride Month

I am free to call people what I believe them to be. Wouldn't this "free American" you decided that you can speak for agree that I have that right?



I have no religion, and have not mentioned "law". At all.



If people are foolish enough to send their child to a government school, they shouldn't be shocked if they are being indoctrinated.



Grooming is a thing, and I perhaps am better acquainted with the techniques described by Bernays than you seem to be.
Grooming is a thing, however not every show is "grooming" sometimes it is just a cartoon. One that the writers realized that some people are not heterosexual. There is no "solution" that makes it so that your kid will never see a gay person. It may be better for them to understand the concept before their first sighting... Then they can go home and ask you about it and get fed bigoted nonsense about how they are a danger to society, that's on you and you have every right to hate on them. But hetero-washing every show so that they never see the concept... well that's your "values" and I don't think schools exist to teach your values. Just as I don't want them teaching the "values" of pretty much any other idiot. You teach your kid your values, based on the reality they understand. Because of that you can teach them all about how every gay person out there is dangerous... and tell them how angrified you are at books that mention gay people. (This isn't the same as descriptive books teaching folks how to have any kind of sex).

We have laws against pedophilia, use them, stop trying to push gay folks into that same square hole.
 
Grooming is a thing, however not every show is "grooming" sometimes it is just a cartoon. One that the writers realized that some people are not heterosexual. There is no "solution" that makes it so that your kid will never see a gay person. It may be better for them to understand the concept before their first sighting... Then they can go home and ask you about it and get fed bigoted nonsense about how they are a danger to society, that's on you and you have every right to hate on them. But hetero-washing every show so that they never see the concept... well that's your "values" and I don't think schools exist to teach your values. Just as I don't want them teaching the "values" of pretty much any other idiot. You teach your kid your values, based on the reality they understand. Because of that you can teach them all about how every gay person out there is dangerous... and tell them how angrified you are at books that mention gay people. (This isn't the same as descriptive books teaching folks how to have any kind of sex).

We have laws against pedophilia, use them, stop trying to push gay folks into that same square hole.
Exposing children to sexualized material is always grooming.
 
Grooming is a thing, however not every show is "grooming" sometimes it is just a cartoon. One that the writers realized that some people are not heterosexual. There is no "solution" that makes it so that your kid will never see a gay person. It may be better for them to understand the concept before their first sighting... Then they can go home and ask you about it and get fed bigoted nonsense about how they are a danger to society, that's on you and you have every right to hate on them. But hetero-washing every show so that they never see the concept... well that's your "values" and I don't think schools exist to teach your values. Just as I don't want them teaching the "values" of pretty much any other idiot. You teach your kid your values, based on the reality they understand. Because of that you can teach them all about how every gay person out there is dangerous... and tell them how angrified you are at books that mention gay people. (This isn't the same as descriptive books teaching folks how to have any kind of sex).

We have laws against pedophilia, use them, stop trying to push gay folks into that same square hole.


Nonsense on stilts. I said none of that, so I don't know where you got it. I object to all insidious sexualized content, BTW; not just the homosexual propaganda.

I will explain what I referred to earlier.

Edward Bernays, often called the father of modern public relations (and a nephew of Sigmund Freud), outlined in his 1928 book Propaganda and later works like The Engineering of Consent (1947/1955) how a small group of influencers could systematically shape public opinion, habits, and even moral norms without the public realizing it.

He argued that “the conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society,” and that leaders (or corporations, media producers, and cultural gatekeepers) could “pull the wires which control the public mind” by appealing to unconscious desires rather than rational argument.

Bernays viewed the masses as driven by irrational “herd instincts” and Freudian subconscious impulses (sex, status, belonging).

Bernays said that traditional authority; i.e. parents, religion, community, was too slow and direct; instead, he formulated the concept that modern media could “engineer consent” by flooding the environment with repeated symbols, stories, and imagery that gradually redefined what felt normal, desirable, or inevitable.

His most famous demonstration was the 1929 “Torches of Freedom” campaign, in which he staged (paid) women smoking cigarettes in public as an 'act of feminist liberation'. Overnight, a behavior long considered unladylike became stylish and normalized; purely through orchestrated media coverage.

The same mechanism operates today with sexualized imagery and concepts in children’s media environment (music videos, streaming shows, social-media algorithms, advertising, video games, and influencer content).

Children are not rational critics; they are developmentally wired to absorb patterns from their surroundings as “how the world is.”

When sexualized content is ubiquitous, such as hyper-sexualized bodies presented as the default standard of attractiveness, casual hookups framed as empowering or funny, gender fluidity or early sexual experimentation treated as edgy but harmless, the repetition does not feel like manipulation or persuasion to a child. It feels like background reality.

Bernays called this “crystallizing public opinion”, in which the propagandist does not argue that a behavior should be accepted; they make it appear as if it is already accepted.

For impressionable children, this creates a monster if it is sexual in nature.

Kids internalize imagery at a pre-verbal level. What they see constantly becomes their mental prototype of “normal”. As his nephew, who spent years with him, Bernays exploited a Freudian insight that sexualized images are especially potent when deployed against children, because they bypass the conscious filters that adults possess, and tap directly into developing drives.

Children want to belong.

When media consistently portrays certain behaviors (early sexualization, objectification, or rejection of traditional boundaries) as what “everyone” does, deviation feels abnormal.

Society’s rules begin to look outdated or repressive by comparison, exactly as Bernays realized when he posited his method of bypassing direct authority.

Media producers do not need to convince parents; they only need to reach the children who will grow up internalizing "the new normal".

Over time, the children’s peer culture and future adult expectations reinforce the shift, making counter-messages feel like isolated opinions rather than cultural defaults. This is what Bernays meant by “regiment[ing] the public mind” through channels the target never suspects are coordinated.

The result is a classic disconnect: parents may explicitly teach restraint, modesty, delayed gratification, or traditional sexual ethics, yet children encounter a media-saturated world where those values are rarely modeled and often mocked.

The engineered environment quietly teaches that normal beliefs are the outlier. As Bernays observed, once a new pattern is crystallized in enough minds, the old pattern begins to feel artificial; even to those who once held it. I suspect you may be exhibiting the efficacy of that process.

The relatively-new prevalence of sexualized content aimed at children does not merely reflect culture; it actively reshapes it by making alternative behaviors seem fringe, while the promoted ones feel inevitable and “just how things are.”

This is not conspiracy in the cartoon sense; it is the logical outcome of profit-driven media using the exact psychological levers Bernays professionalized a century ago.

The “invisible government” he described is no longer just government. It includes every algorithm, studio executive, and brand that profits from attention captured through sexualized imagery.

Children, lacking the critical defenses adults possess, are the most efficient vector for long-term cultural normalization of behaviors that some people yearn for.

I'd suggest that you take a moment and reflect upon the Nickelodeon children's network scandal, or the concurrent Disney ones.



 
There shouldn't be any sexualization in cartoons for children, hetero or otherwise.
Yet you get your fill of Princes kissing unconscious women, Princesses wanting them a Prince... etc. We can talk about how it is simply a story... but turn the tide on that and tell me that Diogenes wouldn't be calling it "perverted"... ay? It teaches the values you want to espouse, but it is still values.
 
Nonsense on stilts. I said none of that, so I don't know where you got it. I object to all insidious sexualized content, BTW; not just the homosexual propaganda.

I will explain what I referred to earlier.

Edward Bernays, often called the father of modern public relations (and a nephew of Sigmund Freud), outlined in his 1928 book Propaganda and later works like The Engineering of Consent (1947/1955) how a small group of influencers could systematically shape public opinion, habits, and even moral norms without the public realizing it.

He argued that “the conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society,” and that leaders (or corporations, media producers, and cultural gatekeepers) could “pull the wires which control the public mind” by appealing to unconscious desires rather than rational argument.

Bernays viewed the masses as driven by irrational “herd instincts” and Freudian subconscious impulses (sex, status, belonging).

Bernays said that traditional authority; i.e. parents, religion, community, was too slow and direct; instead, he formulated the concept that modern media could “engineer consent” by flooding the environment with repeated symbols, stories, and imagery that gradually redefined what felt normal, desirable, or inevitable.

His most famous demonstration was the 1929 “Torches of Freedom” campaign, in which he staged (paid) women smoking cigarettes in public as an 'act of feminist liberation'. Overnight, a behavior long considered unladylike became stylish and normalized; purely through orchestrated media coverage.

The same mechanism operates today with sexualized imagery and concepts in children’s media environment (music videos, streaming shows, social-media algorithms, advertising, video games, and influencer content).

Children are not rational critics; they are developmentally wired to absorb patterns from their surroundings as “how the world is.”

When sexualized content is ubiquitous, such as hyper-sexualized bodies presented as the default standard of attractiveness, casual hookups framed as empowering or funny, gender fluidity or early sexual experimentation treated as edgy but harmless, the repetition does not feel like manipulation or persuasion to a child. It feels like background reality.

Bernays called this “crystallizing public opinion”, in which the propagandist does not argue that a behavior should be accepted; they make it appear as if it is already accepted.

For impressionable children, this creates a monster if it is sexual in nature.

Kids internalize imagery at a pre-verbal level. What they see constantly becomes their mental prototype of “normal”. As his nephew, who spent years with him, Bernays exploited a Freudian insight that sexualized images are especially potent when deployed against children, because they bypass the conscious filters that adults possess, and tap directly into developing drives.

Children want to belong.

When media consistently portrays certain behaviors (early sexualization, objectification, or rejection of traditional boundaries) as what “everyone” does, deviation feels abnormal.

Society’s rules begin to look outdated or repressive by comparison, exactly as Bernays realized when he posited his method of bypassing direct authority.

Media producers do not need to convince parents; they only need to reach the children who will grow up internalizing "the new normal".

Over time, the children’s peer culture and future adult expectations reinforce the shift, making counter-messages feel like isolated opinions rather than cultural defaults. This is what Bernays meant by “regiment[ing] the public mind” through channels the target never suspects are coordinated.

The result is a classic disconnect: parents may explicitly teach restraint, modesty, delayed gratification, or traditional sexual ethics, yet children encounter a media-saturated world where those values are rarely modeled and often mocked.

The engineered environment quietly teaches that normal beliefs are the outlier. As Bernays observed, once a new pattern is crystallized in enough minds, the old pattern begins to feel artificial; even to those who once held it. I suspect you may be exhibiting the efficacy of that process.

The relatively-new prevalence of sexualized content aimed at children does not merely reflect culture; it actively reshapes it by making alternative behaviors seem fringe, while the promoted ones feel inevitable and “just how things are.”

This is not conspiracy in the cartoon sense; it is the logical outcome of profit-driven media using the exact psychological levers Bernays professionalized a century ago.

The “invisible government” he described is no longer just government. It includes every algorithm, studio executive, and brand that profits from attention captured through sexualized imagery.

Children, lacking the critical defenses adults possess, are the most efficient vector for long-term cultural normalization of behaviors that some people yearn for.

I'd suggest that you take a moment and reflect upon the Nickelodeon children's network scandal, or the concurrent Disney ones.



So your answer is to make sure they "want to belong" to the group you want them in. You want to teach your values to the detriment of the values of others because you think they are superior in some way. I think that teaching values is something you do at home. At school they get to learn the world as it is, you can teach them your bigotry at home and we are all satisfied.
 
So your answer is to make sure they "want to belong" to the group you want them in.

No, it's not.

You want to teach your values to the detriment of the values of others because you think they are superior in some way.

No, I don't.

I think that teaching values is something you do at home.

It should be allowed, in my opinion, if the parents choose to do so.

At school they get to learn the world as it is

Based on whose assessment?

you can teach them your bigotry at home and we are all satisfied.

I don't consider being opposed to the grooming of children bigotry.
 
No, it's not.



No, I don't.



It should be allowed, in my opinion, if the parents choose to do so.



Based on whose assessment?



I don't consider being opposed to the grooming of children bigotry.
There is a difference between grooming and having a gay person in a cartoon.
 
Is there?
Yes.

Let's say you had a book in the library that taught kids how to have Diogenes approved hetero sex, that would be grooming, just as it would be with gay sex in books. Now having a princess looking for a prince... or a prince looking for a prince.... in a cartoon? Not so much.
 

So you say.

Let's say you had a book in the library that taught kids how to have Diogenes approved hetero sex, that would be grooming, just as it would be with gay sex in books. Now having a princess looking for a prince... or a prince looking for a prince.... in a cartoon? Not so much.

Risible.

If I'd said I approved of media teaching children how to have any kind of sex, you'd have a point.

Since I didn't - because I do not - you don't.
 
So you say.



Risible.

If I'd said I approved of media teaching children how to have any kind of sex, you'd have a point.

Since I didn't - because I do not - you don't.
You wanted to know the difference between grooming and just teaching reality and I gave you the difference. Don't ask the question if you want a specific response and want to pretend I was supposed to somehow restate your opinion.

You want to protect your values. You have stated so several times in this thread. I have pointed out to you that they are values and why they are values. I have pointed out to you that you can teach them to your children should you want to... but that you have no right to force those values on others.

I propose we teach the world as it is, which means that it includes gay people... and you can insert your values into their little heads at home. Make sure to tell them how "icky" it is, then when one of them comes out to you, it won't be until they are adults and just want to burn down your soul.
 
You wanted to know the difference between grooming and just teaching reality and I gave you the difference.

I asked if there is a difference between grooming and having a gay person in a cartoon. You invented the part about "teaching reality".

Don't ask the question if you want to pretend I was somehow restating your opinion.

I guess we're done here, because that's exactly what I perceive you have been doing. I'm not sure why.
 
I asked if there is a difference between grooming and having a gay person in a cartoon. You invented the part about "teaching reality".



I guess we're done here, because that's exactly what I perceive you have been doing. I'm not sure why.
I have not once claimed you have restated my opinion, nor asked you to do anything of the sort. You have, however, demanded that my opinion match yours.

Your argument here is that you find this "icky" and no book or movie should give any hint that gay people exist to your children, if they exist it is "grooming"... I propose we not let your values and your sense of "ick" get in the way of reality. Set limits on sexualizing, not on mentioning reality and then you can teach your values to your kids at home.

I think pretending they do not exist gives you no chance to teach those values as they will never ask the questions... So, they will get those values from their friends. I believe it is wise to give children reason to ask the questions that you find uncomfortable so that they do not create the scenes you find uncomfortable in mixed company...
 
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