Hong Kong - tip of the spear in China Peoples' REVOLT against Socialist Rule

Havana Moon said:
Victory for protestors as Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam announces the WITHDRAWAL of hated extradition bill following three months of unrest

Embattled Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam (pictured) announced the bill's withdrawal at a meeting with lawmakers today and confirmed it in a public statement in which she called for dialogue.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...nbag-rounds-overnight-clashes-protesters.html
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amazing.. the protestors accomplished a big win right there for the "2 legal systems"

The principle of one country, two systems is a prominent feature of the Basic Law, which dictates that Hong Kong will retain its common law and capitalist system for 50 years after the handover in 1997.
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Howard the Duck said:
The worst thing a person can be called is a Marxist. If they would all commit themselves to a Jonestown solution, the world would instantly be a better place. Along with Nazis, they are the only ideologues for which I proscribe this.
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You're not only a drunk but a very, very boring drunk. Goodbye.
 
Truth Detector said:
I am not so sure about that. I do not think the majority of mainland Chinese know any better and would support a massive revolution against an armed tyrannical regime.

The former Soviet Union is different. It collapsed thanks to a changing leadership and lackluster economics.
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Yes, I am optimistically, speculating. And You may be right. It is almost always safer to bet that the status quo won't change.

Yes, Gorbachev gave the Russian people more freedom from socialism with Glasnost and such. But China has also loosened the reigns of socialist oppression over the last several decades. Thought Xi is trying to reverse that trend.

China is looking at a looming huge economic downturn. And The Tienanmen Square event shows that some in the military may be willing to support a peoples' revolt.

Like all Socialists, Xi rules by FEAR. Donald Trump is the first leader of the free world to not cower to China's power, and stand up to the boogey man that is the Chinese gov't. DJT's leadership is inspiring many people to challenge the status quo.
 
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Adolf_Twitler said:
Bigdog, I give you credit for seeming to care about democracy in the world!

That's a good start! Keep caring, and someday, you may even care about your own democracy- and reflect that in your vote!
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Are you advocating for a direct democracy, Hitler?
 
Cypress said:
As rune aptly stated you are attempting a false premise .

I am going to be generous and assume your tepid premise is a consequence of your ignorance of history.

The sovietcommunists overthrew a democratic socialist provisional government in October 1917

Socialists were the first to take up arms against the soviet communists, while conservative aristocrats and capitalists sat on the sidelines or fled the country in a panic.
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The workers and soldiers supported the Russian Socialist Democratic Labour Party that overthrew the warmongering, economic disaster that was the Provisional gov't.

This liberal mythology that Socialism is Direct Democracy ... and Communism is a Socialist dictatorship needs to be put to rest. It is a lie that angry old white socialists tell to millenials.
 
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Into the Night said:
Worth what you pay for, since this is not a history lesson of any sort.

Communism, which is one form of socialism, and fascism, which is the other form of socialism, are theft of wealth. They can only be implemented by dictatorships or oligarchies. China uses oligarchy. The USSR used oligarchies. Russia today is more capitalist, but still has a lot of socialism going on.

WRONG. Fascism is theft of industry by operation, not by ownership. The government tells the companies what they can make, how much they can sell it for, when they can sell it, who they can sell to, how much to pay their workers, where to buy their raw materials from, etc. Of course, the owners still own the company. They just don't get any say how it's run.

Communism is where the government owns the industry outright. They ARE the owners.

Both forms of socialism bring misery. It is theft of wealth. Only capitalism can create wealth.


If you believe that. I bet you say, 'Kum Ba Ya" a lot too.

Norway is largely capitalist. It is a monarchy, but so far the government hasn't been seriously attempting to steal wealth and give it to unproductive members of society. Thus, despite the monarchy, Norway is prospering. Norway is not a democracy.

There are currently no democracies anywhere in the world.
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You wingnuts spent eight years calling Obama a "socialist".

If Obama is a socialist, then Norway most certainly is. Norway's social welfare state and government ownership of key industries is far in excess of anything Obama ever proposed.

If you don't want Norway to be socialist, wingnuts owe an apology for investing eight years of their lives calling Obama a socialist.

It is abundantly clear that five minutes before you typed this post, you knew virtually nothing substantive and profound about the history of socialism, the Russian Revolution, the Scandinavian model, you would not even be able to explain the difference between Bolsheviks, Mensheviks, or the Russian SRs.

My time is valuable to me, and I am not going to use to engage a wannabe armchair expert. I am cutting you loose.

Albert Einstein: Why Socialism?

Einstein demonstrated his own resolve in the face of hostile criticism in 1949 when he published the influential article “Why Socialism?” in the inaugural issue of Monthly Review

Einstein’s socialism was that of the democratic left, which distinguished itself from the communist left by its deep commitment to constitutional, electoral procedures and gradual social reform.

In his thoughtful and densely argued 1949 essay, Einstein argued for a planned economy but warned that it carried with it the risk that an all-powerful bureaucracy could become as much of a threat to the rights of the individual as is the unchecked competitiveness of capitalism.

Einstein noted that democratic government under capitalism cannot be trusted to protect ordinary working people because political parties are financed or otherwise influenced by private capitalists who constitute an “oligarchy of private capital.” The worst evil of capitalism, he wrote, was “the crippling of individuals.”

Einstein was always clear and firm in condemning what was going on in Stalin’s Soviet Union


source credit: Albert Einstein: Physicist, Philosopher, Humanitarian, course notes, professor Don Howard, Notre Dame University
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Bigdog said:
The workers and soldiers supported the Russian Socialist Democratic Labour Party that overthrew the warmongering, economic disaster that was the Provisional gov't.

This liberal mythology that Socialism is Direct Democracy ... and Communism is a Socialist dictatorship needs to be put to rest. It is a lie that angry old white socialists tell to millenials.
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Three minutes before you typed this, you had no clue what or who the Provisional government was, you had no idea who Aleksandr Kerensky was, and you had no clue that there were two Russian revolutions in 1917, and you would never be able to competently explain the Russian civil war, the Green movement, the White Movement, or anything about the history of European socialism and the European left in general.

You just typed in a google search, grabbed the first thing you could find, and rushed back here to respond to me.

My time is valuable, and I refuse to engage with someone who pretends to be an armchair expert, but actually knows nothing and is utterly dependent on doing quick 20 second google searches before rushing back here in an attempt to sound informed and erudite. That is a categorical waste of my time.
 
Rune said:
Don't forget Muslims you hater, lol
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Not sure. I definitely want a world were every last Marxist and Nazi has killed themselves. As for Muslims, I'm happy working toward slow victory over Islam.
 
Cypress said:
You wingnuts spent eight years calling Obama a "socialist".
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He is a socialist.
Cypress said:
If Obama is a socialist, then Norway most certainly is.
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Norway is a monarchy. While socialism does exist in Norway, it is largely capitalist, despite the monarchy.
Cypress said:
Norway's social welfare state and government ownership of key industries is far in excess of anything Obama ever proposed.
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No, we have more government owned industries in the United States than Norway has. They are generally failing too.
Cypress said:
If you don't want Norway to be socialist,
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It largely isn't.
Cypress said:
wingnuts owe an apology for investing eight years of their lives calling Obama a socialist.
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He is a socialist. I make no apologies.
Cypress said:
It is abundantly clear that five minutes before you typed this post, you knew virtually nothing substantive and profound about the history of socialism, the Russian Revolution, the Scandinavian model, you would not even be able to explain the difference between Bolsheviks, Mensheviks, or the Russian SRs.
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Irrelevant.
Cypress said:
My time is valuable to me, and I am not going to use to engage a wannabe armchair expert. I am cutting you loose.
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Your time is not valuable. You want it valued by the government, remember?
 
Cypress said:
Three minutes before you typed this, you had no clue what or who the Provisional government was, you had no idea who Aleksandr Kerensky was, and you had no clue that there were two Russian revolutions in 1917, and you would never be able to competently explain the Russian civil war, the Green movement, the White Movement, or anything about the history of European socialism and the European left in general.

You just typed in a google search, grabbed the first thing you could find, and rushed back here to respond to me.

My time is valuable, and I refuse to engage with someone who pretends to be an armchair expert, but actually knows nothing and is utterly dependent on doing quick 20 second google searches before rushing back here in an attempt to sound informed and erudite. That is a categorical waste of my time.
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Shut the fuck-up, Brian Griffin. No one is more pretentious than you.
 
Cypress said:
Three minutes before you typed this, you had no clue what or who the Provisional government was, you had no idea who Aleksandr Kerensky was, and you had no clue that there were two Russian revolutions in 1917, and you would never be able to competently explain the Russian civil war, the Green movement, the White Movement, or anything about the history of European socialism and the European left in general.

You just typed in a google search, grabbed the first thing you could find, and rushed back here to respond to me.

My time is valuable, and I refuse to engage with someone who pretends to be an armchair expert, but actually knows nothing and is utterly dependent on doing quick 20 second google searches before rushing back here in an attempt to sound informed and erudite. That is a categorical waste of my time.
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Here is a prime example of a sanctimonious hectoring arrogant piss poor excuse for a man, truly a waste of space.
 
"China Is Running Out of Options In Hong Kong
As protests enter their sixth month and become increasingly violent and disruptive, Beijing's under pressure to get the situation under control.


... Beijing could cancel next week’s local assembly elections as a way to cement the pro-China makeup of the body and prevent a schism from forming within the government.

“There's a concern the government may postpone the District Council election to be held on November 24,” Lau said. “If so, it would cause a strong objection because many people are very keen to vote.”

But already the government has moved to ensure at least one prominent pro-democracy activist won’t be voted in. Last month it barred Joshua Wong from running, claiming he had not abandoned the belief that independence could be an option for Hong Kong's future. ... "

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ne8gaq/china-is-running-out-of-options-in-hong-kong
 
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