Madison Cawthorn (R-NC) vs. the 14th Amendment.

Flash said:
Didn't say you were. You claimed the Constitution was already overthrown. I was just correcting you.
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then, i'm sorry to say, but you're ignorant of just how far out of their constitutional limits the federal government has already gone. the constitution has been overthrown and it's been that way since the early 1930s
 
Walt said:
OJ Simpson was sued for murder, and murder is quite definitely a criminal matter. But, he was sued in civil court, so civil levels of proof are required. So he could be found civilly libel, but not criminally guilty.

A similar division is between levels of proof for running for office as opposed to criminal penalties. The 14th Amendment never intended to limit it to only those found criminally guilty.

I do agree this could be misused, and this might be a borderline case... But there is absolutely no requirement for a criminal level of proof. If "Madison's" only defense is that there is not a criminal level of proof, he is done for.
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Who sues for civil penalty in this case? I don't think this line of attack has a chance even if it works on Cawthorn (which I doubt).

OJ Simpson was sued by the victim's parents for damages to their son.
 
Walt said:
They are suing to keep him off the ballot, so neither a civil nor a criminal penalty. It is called an administrative penalty.
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Who is suing? And, how do you prove he did anything as part of an insurrection. So, far, people just claim he was on a "planning committee." How is that insurrection? They are going to need more evidence than they have now.
 
Flash said:
Who is suing? And, how do you prove he did anything as part of an insurrection. So, far, people just claim he was on a "planning committee." How is that insurrection? They are going to need more evidence than they have now.
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The original post has this information. It is an organization called Free Speech for People. They filed their case to the North Carolina State Board of Elections.

Insurrection is a conspiracy crime, which is to say that being on the planning committee makes you guilty. If he can be proven to have known about the breech of the Capitol Building, or to have covered it up after the fact, while being on the planning committee... He is out of there. I do not know if there is enough evidence, but it will certainly be close.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
The insurrection may come into play for the Mid-terms.

Madison Cawthorn, a key speaker for Trump's insurrection, is up for reelection in NC's 13th District but his bid may be disqualified by the 14th Amendment. It's possible that all of the elected reps, including Trump, may be ineligible for election.

https://wlos.com/news/local/madison...-speech-for-people-north-carolina-district-13
Nonprofit organization Free Speech for People, a "nonpartisan, non-profit legal advocacy organization with constitutional law expertise," which is serving as lead counsel in the matter, announced on Monday that the challenge was filed before the North Carolina State Board of Elections. The challenge "alleges that Cawthorn is constitutionally disqualified from public office under the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution based on reasonable suspicion that he helped facilitate the January 6, 2021 insurrection," the nonprofit described in its press release.

The legal challenge brought against Rep. Cawthorn cites Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment, known as the Disqualification Clause, which states, in part, “No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress. . . who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress . . . to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.”

Monday's release adds that no criminal conviction is required under the clause, and that "Cawthorn would be able to seek judicial review of an adverse decision."
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Do you clowns understand how desperate you look?
 
Flash said:
How do we know that?

Good review:

The Insurrection Bar to Office: Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10569
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It is true that there is a "scarcity of precedents and lack of clear definitions", but it has been previously decided after the Civil War that there is no requirement for a criminal case, or even a criminal level of evidence.

What this case will do is force an investigation into who knew what, which cannot help "Madison".
 
Callinectes said:
Do you clowns understand how desperate you look?
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Translation: I'm too fucking stupid to say anything intelligent so I'll just sling the standard shit.

Awesome! Rough day on the job? Tomorrow is TGIF! W00t! Well, TGIF for you working stiffs. Us retired types have to figure out what fun to have each day. :)

4cor38.gif
 
Walt said:
They are suing to keep him off the ballot, so neither a civil nor a criminal penalty. It is called an administrative penalty.
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They are suing to keep him off the ballot
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Winner winner chicken dinner!!! Same thing with Trump!! Why are you so nervous? Why are you so afraid? Until very recently, I thought it was just desperation. Now I think it is dumb animal fear, because while dumb animal fear is irrational, desperation requires a situation that must be escaped from, or information that must be suppressed and sometimes stupid and dangerous criminal acts that must never come to light.

You joe-six-pack jackass troglodytes aren’t desperate, you’ve just been told that Trump and anyone who ever supported him must never hold public office again because of the “crimes” they’ve committed. You hear “crimes” and your lizard brain takes over and you run around with your hair on fire, never even considering that the jackass congress critters have you scared out of your wits with a bunch of trivial BS that has never stuck to Trump. What THEY are trying to escape is the open secret that this country is being governed (and I use that term very loosely) by a biden crime syndicate.

It is my fervent hope that ‘tater head’s last 2 years in office are a mirror image of Trump’s. I hope he is mired in a swamp of congressional and criminal investigations and his legislative agenda is frozen in it’s tracks (Trump luckily got his major agenda done in the 1st year or so of his term).

I do hope for this, but I am not confident of it. After all, the jackass puppeteers with their hands up your asses moving your mouths are desperate, and you poor schmucks are just stupid with fear.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
The insurrection may come into play for the Mid-terms.

Madison Cawthorn, a key speaker for Trump's insurrection, is up for reelection in NC's 13th District but his bid may be disqualified by the 14th Amendment. It's possible that all of the elected reps, including Trump, may be ineligible for election.

https://wlos.com/news/local/madison...-speech-for-people-north-carolina-district-13
Nonprofit organization Free Speech for People, a "nonpartisan, non-profit legal advocacy organization with constitutional law expertise," which is serving as lead counsel in the matter, announced on Monday that the challenge was filed before the North Carolina State Board of Elections. The challenge "alleges that Cawthorn is constitutionally disqualified from public office under the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution based on reasonable suspicion that he helped facilitate the January 6, 2021 insurrection," the nonprofit described in its press release.

The legal challenge brought against Rep. Cawthorn cites Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment, known as the Disqualification Clause, which states, in part, “No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress. . . who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress . . . to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.”

Monday's release adds that no criminal conviction is required under the clause, and that "Cawthorn would be able to seek judicial review of an adverse decision."
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The only problem with your theory is it's ridiculous bullshit.
 
Callinectes said:
Winner winner chicken dinner!!! Same thing with Trump!! Why are you so nervous? Why are you so afraid? Until very recently, I thought it was just desperation. Now I think it is dumb animal fear, because while dumb animal fear is irrational, desperation requires a situation that must be escaped from, or information that must be suppressed and sometimes stupid and dangerous criminal acts that must never come to light.

You joe-six-pack jackass troglodytes aren’t desperate, you’ve just been told that Trump and anyone who ever supported him must never hold public office again because of the “crimes” they’ve committed. You hear “crimes” and your lizard brain takes over and you run around with your hair on fire, never even considering that the jackass congress critters have you scared out of your wits with a bunch of trivial BS that has never stuck to Trump. What THEY are trying to escape is the open secret that this country is being governed (and I use that term very loosely) by a biden crime syndicate.

It is my fervent hope that ‘tater head’s last 2 years in office are a mirror image of Trump’s. I hope he is mired in a swamp of congressional and criminal investigations and his legislative agenda is frozen in it’s tracks (Trump luckily got his major agenda done in the 1st year or so of his term).

I do hope for this, but I am not confident of it. After all, the jackass puppeteers with their hands up your asses moving your mouths are desperate, and you poor schmucks are just stupid with fear.
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calling 1/6 an insurrection is just a case of not knowing what words mean.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Translation: I'm too fucking stupid to say anything intelligent so I'll just sling the standard shit.

Awesome! Rough day on the job? Tomorrow is TGIF! W00t! Well, TGIF for you working stiffs. Us retired types have to figure out what fun to have each day. :)

4cor38.gif
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Well, okay retired guy. Run along now and have fun with your AK. Please make sure to practice safe firearms handling and stay away from schools.
 
Walt said:
The original post has this information. It is an organization called Free Speech for People. They filed their case to the North Carolina State Board of Elections.

Insurrection is a conspiracy crime, which is to say that being on the planning committee makes you guilty. If he can be proven to have known about the breech of the Capitol Building, or to have covered it up after the fact, while being on the planning committee... He is out of there. I do not know if there is enough evidence, but it will certainly be close.
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Is there any evidence of what the planning committee did? I don't think you are guilty because you are on the committee unless they prove you were involved in the conspiracy to commit a criminal act.

As I have observed on my time on JPP, partisans become overly optimistic about anything they think will hurt the other side and about the chances for their side in the upcoming election.
 
Walt said:
It is true that there is a "scarcity of precedents and lack of clear definitions", but it has been previously decided after the Civil War that there is no requirement for a criminal case, or even a criminal level of evidence.

What this case will do is force an investigation into who knew what, which cannot help "Madison".
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The cases after the Civil War required a two-thirds vote of the House or Senate to expel the members of that house. That is not a criminal level of evidence but a pretty high bar. Also, they actually had evidence of participation in the Confederate military or government.
 
Originally Posted by Flash: There were weapons involved. One veteran plead guilty to possessing Molotov cocktails, unregistered firearms, a crossbow. Weapons used against the police officers included the barriers, fire extinguisher, stolen police shield, baseball bat, hockey stick, a rebar, a flag pole, pepper spray and bear spray, and stun gun. Over a dozen police officers went to the hospital with injuries like concussions and bone fractures. There were several charged with carrying firearms on Capitol grounds including an off-duty DEA agent.

Truth Detector said:
That's a pile of bullshit. You must have gotten that info from MSNBC, Nothing was destroyed. The only people who died that day or were shot, were protestors.
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I don't watch TV news. That information came from 1) anybody with eyes who watched the videos saw the rioters hitting police with the barriers, flag poles, fire extinguishes, and stolen police shields. 2) from the testimony of police officers at the January 6 hearings 3) the information about the weapons came from charges made against the rioters that some plead guilty to
 
Flash said:
The cases after the Civil War required a two-thirds vote of the House or Senate to expel the members of that house. That is not a criminal level of evidence but a pretty high bar. Also, they actually had evidence of participation in the Confederate military or government.
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I suspect the evidence is here too despite all the attempts to illegally destroy it.
 
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