Maine votes out electoral college

Excellent, Thanks, Ralph.

The Constitution gives Maine the power to distribute electors as they choose.

There is no concept of a "faithless elector" in the Constitution because that is based on the concept that the elector should be faithful to the popular vote of that state.

Since the Constitution does not contain any concept of a popular vote for president no electors could be unfaithful.

Maine's actions cannot be challenged as unconstitutional since they are based on a future condition which might never occur.

My comments have nothing to do with supporting (I do) or opposing the electoral college.
 
I can believe in something strongly but that does not mean I should keep my employees from investing in a retirement account. What my employees choose to do has nothing to do with my religious beliefs.
You should restrict their birth control, but your retirement investments should fund the companies you reject? That means you don't believe in it 'strongly'. Hobby Lobby should opt for the lower yield investments that stay away from the industries they claim to have a fundamental objection to. Again...religion is typically the last place to look for continuity.

Hobby Lobby allows its employees to have IUDs and they are free. The government pays for these devices just as they do for religious organizations, Medicaid, or under Obamacare. Everybody wins.

'Allows'? How humane of them. Is this a Fed, or State level funding program?
 
You should restrict their birth control, but your retirement investments should fund the companies you reject? That means you don't believe in it 'strongly'. Hobby Lobby should opt for the lower yield investments that stay away from the industries they claim to have a fundamental objection to. Again...religion is typically the last place to look for continuity.

Would you want your employer to limit your retirement investments to lower yield instruments because of his religious beliefs?

'Allows'? How humane of them. Is this a Fed, or State level funding program?

You erroneously claimed they did not "allow" it: "If you don't allow your employees to have an IUD...."

It is a federal program included under Obamacare intended for religious related institutions that object to some of the contraceptives offered under the insurance. This was the Supreme Court's solution to the dilemma between violating a person's religious beliefs (a constitutional right) and the free contraception included under Obamacare (not a constitutional right). Hobby Lobby does not violate its religious beliefs and the employees get free IUD's.
 
The Constitution gives Maine the power to distribute electors as they choose.

There is no concept of a "faithless elector" in the Constitution because that is based on the concept that the elector should be faithful to the popular vote of that state.

Since the Constitution does not contain any concept of a popular vote for president no electors could be unfaithful.

Maine's actions cannot be challenged as unconstitutional since they are based on a future condition which might never occur.

My comments have nothing to do with supporting (I do) or opposing the electoral college.

There is no concept of a "faithless elector" in the US constitution? Just what does Article 4, Section 4, Clause one declare? "The union "guarantees" a republican form of government to all states...." What is a republican form of government? Ask James Madison as stated quite unambiguously in Federalist No. 10 (a historical document and its content that most liberals feign ignorance of its very existence). Republicanism is a representative form of government organization. Republicanism guarantees rights that cannot be repealed through majority vote. Republicanism formed the basis for several things, "The American Revolution", "The Declaration of Independence", "The US Constitution", and the following "Bill of Rights", Republicanism rejected a government format of being a Representative Republic...i.e, such as in the USSR..etc., and presented itself as a Representative CONSTITUTIONAL Republic...were no right found to exist in the constitution can be alienated (transferred) to any majority rule.....to include a STATE attempting to ignore the guarantee of representation to its people via political dictation.

Of course there is Federalist No. 68....addressing certain rules pertaining to the Electors. The very first rule addressed by Hamilton(aka....Publius)?

THE ELECTORS MEET ONLY WITHIN THEIR SPECIFIC STATES TO SELECT THE PRESIDENT

Strange that Democrats often attempt to argue about things NOT FOUND in the CONSTITUTION, assuming that because something is not addressed that makes it legal. In fact the US CONSTITUION is not a list of things that the PEOPLE can do....its a negative document listing the things that a federal government cannot do. And one thing the Constitution does imply is that no state has the right to tell an Electoral College Elector.....how to vote, thus TRADITION has always been followed that Electors should remain loyal to the popular vote of each state and cast their votes accordingly.

There has never been a SCOTUS decision regarding a FAITHLESS ELECTOR (that has established legal precedent).....there has been serval cases, but the issue is simply ducked by the court system. Democrats talk about others creating a CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS …..yet they attempt to legislate one crisis after another. In reality the right case simply has not made its way to the SCOTUS....when it does there are any number of paths to argue against a state attempting to take away the constitutional authority of any Electoral College Elector to vote how he/she wishes. Most honest, righteous, and virtuous individuals would follow the will of the people...but no...democrats want the authority to demand that the EC vote be cast how the politicians want to vote on a national level.

One simple question for the State of Maine? Since there is no legal precedent considering the FAITHLESS ELECTOR.....what is to stop ONE....or any number of Electors (depending upon state size) from going rouge and independent from any state mandate? Its a constitutional SLIPERY SLOPE....all because of TDS.

Anyone find us ONE SCOTUS example of establishing precedent that would punish a EC elector for going rouge. Yet, Maine is going to legislate the EC into compliance with the state legislators dictates to hand over their authority to a national popular vote?:bigthink:

Again....I must defer my opinion back to the obvious. Dictating anything other than reflecting the will of a peoples state in relation to choosing a POTUS is indeed voter disenfranchising.
 
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There is no concept of a "faithless elector" in the US constitution? Just what does Article 4, Section 4, Clause one declare? "The union "guarantees" a republican form of government to all states...." What is a republican form of government?

You are making too much of the guarantee of the republican form of government clause.

Republican means representative, it has absolutely nothing to do with the electoral college. The original concept of the electoral college is that state legislatures would choose electors and those people would meet in the state capital and cast their electoral votes based on who they thought would make the best president. That choice had nothing to do with the popular vote because there was no popular vote in the Constitution or most of the states until about 1824; thus, there could be no "faithless elector" because there was nothing they were being unfaithful to. There would be no parties or candidates--electors just voted for their choice.

There was no "will of the people" because there was no popular vote. The concept of "will of the people" suggests the will of the majority which Federalist #10 made it very clear the Constitution sought to avoid. The entire Constitution was designed to avoid the "tyranny of the majority" to prevent any group from imposing its will by fragmenting government power as much as possible.
 
You are making too much of the guarantee of the republican form of government clause.

Republican means representative, it has absolutely nothing to do with the electoral college. The original concept of the electoral college is that state legislatures would choose electors and those people would meet in the state capital and cast their electoral votes based on who they thought would make the best president. That choice had nothing to do with the popular vote because there was no popular vote in the Constitution or most of the states until about 1824; thus, there could be no "faithless elector" because there was nothing they were being unfaithful to. There would be no parties or candidates--electors just voted for their choice.

There was no "will of the people" because there was no popular vote. The concept of "will of the people" suggests the will of the majority which Federalist #10 made it very clear the Constitution sought to avoid. The entire Constitution was designed to avoid the "tyranny of the majority" to prevent any group from imposing its will by fragmenting government power as much as possible.

No….I am making an obvious and logical point. The State of Maine....or any state can't have their cake and eat it also (an illogical contradiction based upon the Law of the Excluded Middle.....one of Maine's concepts negates the other in a logical sense). Either the state can control an EC elector or they cannot not.....both positions can't be true. Simply because the Constitution is silent in consideration of the EC elector....does not mean that the EC elector does not have to follow and accept the constitutional guarantees of ALL VOTERS (are the EC Electors not US citizens of the state?) Just as concluded by SCOTUS opinion (there is none in relation to stopping an EC Elector from being faithless)…..how is Maine going to demand faith through an act of legislation from all those who are appointed as EC Electors as they are suggesting they have the authority to do?

The point is......THEY CANNOT; and follow the rule of law established in the Constitution regarding voter disenfranchisement and ignore it at the same instant. Either the EC elector is a free agent and can vote how they wish, as suggested by the State of Maine and cannot be mandated to vote via federal law....or the EC elector can be controlled by state law and must vote according to state political wishes.

Maine claims to have the authority because historically the EC elector has the right to be rouge and independent not bound by state vote....yet on the other hand Maine says they can by an act of legislation force the EC Elector to vote how the state wishes. Which is it. A half dozen of one or 6 of another? ;)

My opinion based upon historical tradition.....the courts will tell them to eat shit and die.
 
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Either the EC elector is a free agent and can vote how they wish, as suggested by the State of Maine and cannot be mandated to vote via federal law....or the EC elector can be controlled by state law and must vote according to state political wishes.

There is no federal law involved. Currently, Maine uses one method to choose electors but can change that method if they choose as the Constitution allow. They are not using both methods at the same time. Currently, their electors are pledged to vote for the candidate of the party that nominated them. They may change that in the future to have the electors pledge to vote for the popular vote winner.

In both cases electors are not really free agents but pledged to vote based on election results. Since it is questionable whether pledges can be enforced, all the Maine electors could have chosen to give their vote to the national popular vote winner in 2016 and accomplished the same thing as the pact.
 
The ELECTORAL COLLEGE is not under STATE JURISDICTION. Maine can do no such thing.

Leftidiots gobble up whatever BULLSHIT they are SPOONFED BY THEIR MASTERS, no matter HOW RIDICULOUS and/or ASININE....

Read something, anything, dumbass. Do you really think these people don't know what they are doing? Including those nasty ass "LIBERAL BITCHES", AKA, the non-partisan League of Women Voters who is spearheading or lending support and are giving talks all around the country. They want PRESIDENTS to be elected based on POPULAR VOTE. It is ENTIRELY WITHIN THE STATES purview to determine who or how they 'elect'.

When the LWV came to talk to us in mid-MAR, they were at about 190 total electoral votes of the states that had ratified the bill, so Maine is + 4. Unless another has signed on that I don't know about, that's 194. 270 IS NEEDED. Surely you recognize where that # came from.

(Don't know what 'phrase' they are using--ratified, accepted, other).


The National Popular Vote, Explained | Brennan Center for Justice


https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/national-popular-vote-explained

Mar 14, 2019 - The Electoral College is one of the most undemocratic features of U.S. elections ... The Compact will go into effect only when states controlling at least 270 electoral votes have joined ... The addition of these three new states brings the number of pledged electoral votes to 189, 70 percent of the needed total.

npv_logo_225x225.png

ADD: Just yesterday the OREGON Senate heard the bill and is expected to approve. It passed their house. They have 7 electoral votes.
 
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So you were just making that up or heard Limbaugh (another trans righty) say it. Obviously neither of you know anything about the Constitution.

Nope. Facts

I will explain it to you, but first you have to admit you are too stupid to look it up yourself. That is my price
 
Nope. Facts

I will explain it to you, but first you have to admit you are too stupid to look it up yourself. That is my price

There is nothing to look up. No constitutional provision on the electoral college prevent a state from entering into a compact to change the way they choose electors; or, those electors would be free to vote for the national vote winner if they chose.

If you are trying to claim it has something to do with the guarantee of a republican form of government you have been conned.
 
There is nothing to look up. No constitutional provision on the electoral college prevent a state from entering into a compact to change the way they choose electors; or, those electors would be free to vote for the national vote winner if they chose.

If you are trying to claim it has something to do with the guarantee of a republican form of government you have been conned.

You haven’t paid my price
 
There is nothing to look up. No constitutional provision on the electoral college prevent a state from entering into a compact to change the way they choose electors; or, those electors would be free to vote for the national vote winner if they chose.

If you are trying to claim it has something to do with the guarantee of a republican form of government you have been conned.

P.S.

It has nothing to do with your last statement. It violates two articles of the Constitution.

Also even if I told you, your response would be “no it doesn’t”
 
You haven’t paid my price

In other words, you cannot name a single constitutional provision that would prohibit any state from giving its electoral votes to the national popular vote winner or prevent the state pact (specifically provided for in the Constitution). I think it is a stupid idea but nothing about it is unconstitutional.
 
P.S.

It has nothing to do with your last statement. It violates two articles of the Constitution.

Also even if I told you, your response would be “no it doesn’t”

No it doesn't. You are misinterpreting those two provisions because you don't like the proposal. It is simply partisan reaction on your part.
 
In other words, you cannot name a single constitutional provision that would prohibit any state from giving its electoral votes to the national popular vote winner or prevent the state pact (specifically provided for in the Constitution). I think it is a stupid idea but nothing about it is unconstitutional.

I can name two

But until you pay my price I refuse to educate you for free.
 
No it doesn't. You are misinterpreting those two provisions because you don't like the proposal. It is simply partisan reaction on your part.

How can you make this claim when you don’t know what Articles I will cite?

Once you pay the price of admission, I promise to educate you
 
How can you make this claim when you don’t know what Articles I will cite?

Once you pay the price of admission, I promise to educate you

It doesn't matter which articles you cite since none of them prohibit states from distributing electoral votes in the manner they choose as long as it is consistent with the Constitution.

I am aware of arguments about congressional approval of a pact but most court cases and scholars do not believe it is an issue. Also, Supreme Court rulings give states "wide discretion in selecting the method by which they appoint their electors" (McPherson v. Blacker (1892) and Arizona State Legislature v. Arizona Independent Redistricting Commission (2015))

Also, Congress still has many years to approve such a pact in the event enough states join.
 
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