Medicare For All a fiscal winner

L

LV426

Verified User
Let's use just math and numbers to see how, shall we?

According to KFF's 2018 Employer Health Benefits Survey, the average worker pays $5,547 in premiums and $1,573 in deductibles for a total of $7,120. The HH median income in the country is $61,000. So right now, the average worker pays 12% of their income for health care ($7,120/$61,000 = 11.6%).

Likewise, the average business pays $15,000 per employee to provide coverage. For a business of 50 employees, that is $750,000. The average income for a "small business" (<50 employees) is just $73,000, according to PayScale.

Bernie's M4A plan's payroll tax rate sets a 4% tax on income for workers, and 7.5% tax on income for businesses.

So doing some simple math:

Under the current system, the average worker pays 11.6% of their income, or $7,120 for health care.
If taxed at 4% as proposed, the average worker pays 4% of their income, or $2,440 for health care, saving $4,680 a year.

Under the current system, the average small business of 50 employees pays $750,000 to provide coverage ($15K/worker x 50 workers).
If taxed at 7.5% as proposed, the average small business of 50 employees pays just $5,475 to provide coverage for all its workers, saving $744,525.
 
LV426 said:
Let's use just math and numbers to see how, shall we?

According to KFF's 2018 Employer Health Benefits Survey, the average worker pays $5,547 in premiums and $1,573 in deductibles for a total of $7,120. The HH median income in the country is $61,000. So right now, the average worker pays 12% of their income for health care ($7,120/$61,000 = 11.6%).

Likewise, the average business pays $15,000 per employee to provide coverage. For a business of 50 employees, that is $750,000. The average income for a "small business" (<50 employees) is just $73,000, according to PayScale.

Bernie's M4A plan's payroll tax rate sets a 4% tax on income for workers, and 7.5% tax on income for businesses.

So doing some simple math:

Under the current system, the average worker pays 11.6% of their income, or $7,120 for health care.
If taxed at 4% as proposed, the average worker pays 4% of their income, or $2,440 for health care, saving $4,680 a year.

Under the current system, the average small business of 50 employees pays $750,000 to provide coverage ($15K/worker x 50 workers).
If taxed at 7.5% as proposed, the average small business of 50 employees pays just $5,475 to provide coverage for all its workers, saving $744,525.
Click to expand...



For my situation, my premiums are fully paid and the max out of pocket/year is $1000. That's $6,120 less, using simple math, than what you say is the average. Why would I support what you support?
 
LV426 said:
Let's use just math and numbers to see how, shall we?

According to KFF's 2018 Employer Health Benefits Survey, the average worker pays $5,547 in premiums and $1,573 in deductibles for a total of $7,120. The HH median income in the country is $61,000. So right now, the average worker pays 12% of their income for health care ($7,120/$61,000 = 11.6%).

Likewise, the average business pays $15,000 per employee to provide coverage. For a business of 50 employees, that is $750,000. The average income for a "small business" (<50 employees) is just $73,000, according to PayScale.

Bernie's M4A plan's payroll tax rate sets a 4% tax on income for workers, and 7.5% tax on income for businesses.

So doing some simple math:

Under the current system, the average worker pays 11.6% of their income, or $7,120 for health care.
If taxed at 4% as proposed, the average worker pays 4% of their income, or $2,440 for health care, saving $4,680 a year.

Under the current system, the average small business of 50 employees pays $750,000 to provide coverage ($15K/worker x 50 workers).
If taxed at 7.5% as proposed, the average small business of 50 employees pays just $5,475 to provide coverage for all its workers, saving $744,525.
Click to expand...

If it made all the sense in the world, it is still not going to happen in one sweeping move, it is too complicated for the average American to understand, meaning it is too easy to demogogue, and we all know the right wing demogogues will scapegoat anything to make a buck

Down the road, it probably will happen, but in stages, to call for it now in sweeping reform is unrealistic
 
not with open borders (OK de facto open borders)..
The Dems want Health Insurance for all illegals and all that will show up.
 
archives said:
If it made all the sense in the world, it is still not going to happen in one sweeping move, it is too complicated for the average American to understand, meaning it is too easy to demogogue, and we all know the right wing demogogues will scapegoat anything to make a buck

Down the road, it probably will happen, but in stages, to call for it now in sweeping reform is unrealistic
Click to expand...

To think bullshit like Bernie proposes will work proves you're an idiot.

LV is nothing more than a entitlement minded freeloader that thinks he's owed something. Why would you support that?
 
LV426 said:
Let's use just math and numbers to see how, shall we?

According to KFF's 2018 Employer Health Benefits Survey, the average worker pays $5,547 in premiums and $1,573 in deductibles for a total of $7,120. The HH median income in the country is $61,000. So right now, the average worker pays 12% of their income for health care ($7,120/$61,000 = 11.6%).

Likewise, the average business pays $15,000 per employee to provide coverage. For a business of 50 employees, that is $750,000. The average income for a "small business" (<50 employees) is just $73,000, according to PayScale.

Bernie's M4A plan's payroll tax rate sets a 4% tax on income for workers, and 7.5% tax on income for businesses.

So doing some simple math:

Under the current system, the average worker pays 11.6% of their income, or $7,120 for health care.
If taxed at 4% as proposed, the average worker pays 4% of their income, or $2,440 for health care, saving $4,680 a year.

Under the current system, the average small business of 50 employees pays $750,000 to provide coverage ($15K/worker x 50 workers).
If taxed at 7.5% as proposed, the average small business of 50 employees pays just $5,475 to provide coverage for all its workers, saving $744,525.
Click to expand...

I believe you would be literally shocked and amazed at how many message board conservatives who holler about getting government "out of the way" are actually collecting Medicare, Medicaid, disability payments, social security, federally-guaranteed small business loans, et al.
 
archives said:
If it made all the sense in the world, it is still not going to happen in one sweeping move, it is too complicated for the average American to understand, meaning it is too easy to demogogue, and we all know the right wing demogogues will scapegoat anything to make a buck

Down the road, it probably will happen, but in stages, to call for it now in sweeping reform is unrealistic
Click to expand...

I think the real problem is that most people don't know what a health insurance company is, what they actually do, and how none of what they do relates to the quality of health care delivery.
 
LV426 said:
I think the real problem is that most people don't know what a health insurance company is, what they actually do, and how none of what they do relates to the quality of health care delivery.
Click to expand...

The real problem is pussies like you that refuse to do for yourselves and demand the government do it for you.
 
archives said:
"dukka," the thread is universal health care, not immigration
Click to expand...
no need for you to tell me what to say, I never do that to you.
But if you missed the point there are COSTS involved with illegals, and then there are SERVICES required for non-Americans.

Really HC costs are important, but what I am seeing here i Florida is scarcity of providers ( doctors/medical staff) for our burgeoning population
So it's not just about costs,it's about availability
 
Cypress said:
I believe you would be literally shocked and amazed at how many message board conservatives who holler about getting government "out of the way" are actually collecting Medicare, Medicaid, disability payments, social security, federally-guaranteed small business loans, et al.
Click to expand...

No one is going to be able to debate the numbers. They are stark. They can only oppose it on principle, which is dumb because the principle saves you money.
 
dukkha said:
no need for you to tell me what to say, I never do that to you.
But if you missed the point there are COSTS involved with illegals, and then there are SERVICES required for non-Americans.
Click to expand...

So what? Those people are still working (they're stealing your job, remember? They can't be both stealing your job and not working), which means they're still paying into the system.
 
CFM said:
To think bullshit like Bernie proposes will work proves you're an idiot.

LV is nothing more than a entitlement minded freeloader that thinks he's owed something. Why would you support that?
Click to expand...

How come it, or various models of it, works so well in other nations? How does Medicare itself work?

And what I always found interesting about entitlements is that a large percentage of those that oppose them are seemingly more concerned with what others might be getting rather than what they themselves already possess. We have entitlements of one form or another for decades now and last I saw none of that has radically changed the lifestyle of those that complain the most about them now
 
Cypress said:
I believe you would be literally shocked and amazed at how many message board conservatives who holler about getting government "out of the way" are actually collecting Medicare, Medicaid, disability payments, social security, federally-guaranteed small business loans, et al.
Click to expand...

Loans get paid back. Medicare and SS were paid into.

How many food stamp and welfare freeloaders pay the taxes that fund those handouts? You might be shocked to know that the answer is none.
 
dukkha said:
Really HC costs are important, but what I am seeing here i Florida is scarcity of providers ( doctors/medical staff) for our burgeoning population
So it's not just about costs,it's about availability
Click to expand...

Well then maybe don't saddle prospective med students with hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt, and make public colleges (and their associated med schools) free to all, and you'll see more med students, nursing students, and doctors.
 
dukkha said:
no need for you to tell me what to say, I never do that to you.
But if you missed the point there are COSTS involved with illegals, and then there are SERVICES required for non-Americans.

Really HC costs are important, but what I am seeing here i Florida is scarcity of providers ( doctors/medical staff) for our burgeoning population
So it's not just about costs,it's about availability
Click to expand...

Your president's businesses are known to hire undocumented workers.

And your president's wife used "chain migration" to get her relatives into the country.
 
dukkha said:
not with open borders (OK de facto open borders)..
The Dems want Health Insurance for all illegals and all that will show up.
Click to expand...

The vast majority of Democrats as well as all American citizens do not favor health insurance for those who are undocumented. However they can get treatment at a hospital any time they need it.
 
LV426 said:
Health care is a human right.
Click to expand...
horseshit. not for illegals. They come here illegally- they forfeit benefits and services. They get emergency care and that's it.

and we shoould be deporting the criminal as well, not going after ICE and harboring them by sanctuary cities
 
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