Nagasaki anniversary.

[moon]

That is incorrect. There is nothing even remotely illegal about a just war of self defense.

You're not thinking. Self-defense implies an attack to defend against- which is illegal.
Further, self-defense, which is not illegal, cannot constitute an act of aggression in itself.

 

[Jerome]

It's not a lie. The atomic bombs were dropped on military targets.

Just because the bombs happened to destroy war-making targets doesn't mean the hundreds of thousands of civilians and civilian homes were not also hit.

Are you okay?

 

[moon]

His washed brain isn't dry yet.

 

[Airstrip One]

This has zero relevance to my post. Someone said "if the U.S. focused on killing civilians, they would've bombed Tokyo."

The fact is, we absolutely did. Repeatedly.

They probably talk about Hiroshima and Nagasaki a lot because the deaths from those 2 bombs DWARFED the deaths from thousands of bombs dropped on Tokyo. And, people falsely claim the Japanese surrendered primarily because of the atomic bombs.

So, the Japanese surrender was entirely coincidental?

 

[Jerome]

So, the Japanese surrender was entirely coincidental?

No, the Japanese surrender coincided with the simultaneous Red Army invasion of Japanese-occupied Manchuria. Moreover, the Japanese had made prior overtures to surrender, asking only that their emperor be allowed to retain power (which he did, anyway). The Japanese wanted to surrender to the U.S., not the Soviets. It was fear of a Red Army invasion of Japanese mainland (Hokkaido) that resulted in their surrender. The atomic bombs were seen by the Japanese military junta as a sideshow/cowardly American act.

Prior to the invasion of Manchuria, the Japanese hoped to broker peace with the U.S. through Stalin. When that collapsed, the jig was up for the Japanese.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria

 

[Anvil Kasseri]

Cool.
Almost 100% of the deaths from atomic bombs were civilians.

I suppose it's a matter of opinion what constitutes "almost", but 20,000 soldiers were killed at Hiroshima.

Focusing on deaths alone ignores the destruction of military headquarters and weapons factories.

Just because the bombs happened to destroy war-making targets doesn't mean the hundreds of thousands of civilians and civilian homes were not also hit.

True.

Are you okay?

As far as I know.

Moreover, the Japanese had made prior overtures to surrender, asking only that their emperor be allowed to retain power

That is incorrect. This overture came after both A-bombs had already been dropped.

(which he did, anyway).

That is incorrect. Hirohito was subordinate to MacArthur.

It was fear of a Red Army invasion of Japanese mainland (Hokkaido) that resulted in their surrender.

It was more the fact that they had no hope of using Soviet mediation once war was declared.

 

[Anvil Kasseri]

Self-defense implies an attack to defend against- which is illegal.
Further, self-defense, which is not illegal, cannot constitute an act of aggression in itself.

Agreed.

 

[Nordberg]

If the US wanted to 'deliberately annihilating large civilian populations' they would have targeted Tokyo. Like say, Germans bombing London.

They wanted to see what it would do to a pristine city. They skipped several cities for that reason. It was a science experiment. Data gathering that just happened to be people, men women and children, and doggies, kitties, snakes and rats. They already firebombed the shit out of Tokyo. It would not have looked much different after the bomb.

 

[Jerome]

I suppose it's a matter of opinion what constitutes "almost", but 20,000 soldiers were killed at Hiroshima.

150 soldiers were killed in Nagasaki, meanwhile 80,000 civilians were killed.

Another 100,000 civilians were killed in Hiroshima. This was FAR AND AWAY an attack against civilians, with soldiers serving as collateral damage.

Focusing on deaths alone ignores the destruction of military headquarters and weapons factories.

Do you want to focus on the destruction of homes, hospitals and schools? Because that will make your point look fucking stupid, too.

That is incorrect. This overture came after both A-bombs had already been dropped.

They made overtures through the Soviets. That's why the invasion by the Soviets was the straw that broke the camel's back.

That is incorrect. Hirohito was subordinate to MacArthur.

I said nothing about his implied powers, I said they got to keep their emperor.

It was more the fact that they had no hope of using Soviet mediation once war was declared.

Again, you're just echoing my point (see my prior post with edits). The Manchurian invasion by the Red Army coincided EXACTLY with Japan's acceptance of Potsdam.

 

[Yakuda]

They needed something to threaten with, obviously. The Blitz was clearly criminal (like the Allied bombing of German civilian centres), but child's play compared with the mass-murder of Japanese non-combatants.

And it brought a fucking world war to a screeching halt you dimwit.

 

[Yakuda]

150 soldiers were killed in Nagasaki, meanwhile 80,000 civilians were killed.

Another 100,000 civilians were killed in Hiroshima. This was FAR AND AWAY an attack against civilians, with soldiers serving as collateral damage.



Do you want to focus on the destruction of homes, hospitals and schools? Because that will make your point look fucking stupid, too.




They made overtures through the Soviets. That's why the invasion by the Soviets was the straw that broke the camel's back.



I said nothing about his implied powers, I said they got to keep their emperor.






Again, you're just echoing my point (see my prior post with edits). The Manchurian invasion by the Red Army coincided EXACTLY with Japan's acceptance of Potsdam.

In this case the impeachment of trump was an attempt to unseat a duly elected simply because you pig fucking whiners don't like him. No other reason.

 

[Anvil Kasseri]

150 soldiers were killed in Nagasaki, meanwhile 80,000 civilians were killed.

The second atomic bomb was intended for Kokura Arsenal, a massive (4100 feet by 2000 feet) machine gun factory.

Due to some poor decisions they had to divert to their secondary target, where they destroyed the Mitsubishi Steel and Arms Works (which supplied steel to Japan's war industry and used some of that steel to manufacture 100 naval torpedoes a month), and the Mitsubishi-Urakami Ordnance Plant (which made 400 aerial torpedoes a month, and had made special torpedoes just for attacking Pearl Harbor).

Another 100,000 civilians were killed in Hiroshima. This was FAR AND AWAY an attack against civilians, with soldiers serving as collateral damage.

That is incorrect. It was an attack against soldiers and a vital military headquarters.

Do you want to focus on the destruction of homes, hospitals and schools?

I don't see how they are relevant, but feel free to bring them up if you like.

Because that will make your point look fucking stupid, too.

That is unlikely.

They made overtures through the Soviets.

That was their goal. They never got to the point of making an overture however.

That's why the invasion by the Soviets was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Agreed.

I said nothing about his implied powers, I said they got to keep their emperor.

Japan's request (which didn't come until after both A-bombs had already been dropped) was that Hirohito retain unlimited dictatorial power as Japan's living deity. We denied this request when we told them that Hirohito would be subordinate to MacArthur.

 

[Anvil Kasseri]

They wanted to see what it would do to a pristine city. They skipped several cities for that reason.

They wanted Japan to see what it would do to a pristine city.

It was a science experiment. Data gathering that just happened to be people, men women and children, and doggies, kitties, snakes and rats.

It was an attempt to make Japan surrender.

 

[Yakuda]

They wanted Japan to see what it would do to a pristine city.



It was an attempt to make Japan surrender.

Exactly

And it worked swimmingly

 

[Nordberg]

They wanted Japan to see what it would do to a pristine city.



It was an attempt to make Japan surrender.

Were you able to see what they did to Tokyo? Can you see deaths and destruction were no different? Japan had no airforce. We could bomb at will and we did. Yes, that claim was made so we did not look so bad for using atomic bombs. We are still the only country that used them and we did it twice. I am not proud of that.

 

[Jerome]

The second atomic bomb was intended for Kokura Arsenal, a massive (4100 feet by 2000 feet) machine gun factory.

Due to some poor decisions they had to divert to their secondary target, where they destroyed the Mitsubishi Steel and Arms Works (which supplied steel to Japan's war industry and used some of that steel to manufacture 100 naval torpedoes a month), and the Mitsubishi-Urakami Ordnance Plant (which made 400 aerial torpedoes a month, and had made special torpedoes just for attacking Pearl Harbor).



That is incorrect. It was an attack against soldiers and a vital military headquarters.



I don't see how they are relevant, but feel free to bring them up if you like.



That is unlikely.



That was their goal. They never got to the point of making an overture however.



Agreed.



Japan's request (which didn't come until after both A-bombs had already been dropped) was that Hirohito retain unlimited dictatorial power as Japan's living deity. We denied this request when we told them that Hirohito would be subordinate to MacArthur.

Holy shit, you're a fucking crazy person.

 

[Jerome]

In this case the impeachment of trump was an attempt to unseat a duly elected simply because you pig fucking whiners don't like him. No other reason.

Are you a fucking retard? What does Trump have to do with Nagasaki and Hiroshima?

 

[Nordberg]

They wanted Japan to see what it would do to a pristine city.



It was an attempt to make Japan surrender.

They wanted scientists to be able to evaluate the bomb. Japan was done. Most military experts and generals said so. https://www.carnegiecouncil.org/education/008/expertclips/010

 

[Anvil Kasseri]

Holy shit, you're a fucking crazy person.

All I did was point out facts and reality. What's wrong with that?

 

[moon]

Were you able to see what they did to Tokyo? Can you see deaths and destruction were no different? Japan had no airforce. We could bomb at will and we did. Yes, that claim was made so we did not look so bad for using atomic bombs. We are still the only country that used them and we did it twice. I am not proud of that.

It would take a sadistic asshole to be proud of it. Unfortunately, a lot of sadistic assholes don't recognize their sadism and assholery.