I agree, thanks for stating it, the ruling class doesn’t hold itself to the standards they set for the rest of us. They throw us a bone occasionally, but it’s nothing serious.
Nancy has been waiting because she wants more than just impeachment-JAIL!!
- Thread starter Bill
- Start date
So then what do you make of this, because y'all are going to have to answer for it.
Specifically, why was Manafort sharing polling data with Russian spies in key states that Trump would win by less than 1%, when Trump said "no one had any contact with Russia"?
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5955118-The-Mueller-Report.html
Southern Chicken
Verified User
Doesn't make their conclusion correct. The petition even states "Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy. Believes not known or can confirm.
Dickhead?
Calm down, white boy, we don't want you getting so enraged at losing a debate on a message board that you go shoot up a synagogue.
Nancy (the wicked witch of the West) is between a rock and a hard place.
If she impeaches, the radical Democrat Socialists will suffer a defeat at the polls in 2020 of Biblical proportions.
If she doesn't impeach, the radical Democrat Socialists will have a civil war of Biblical proportions,
If she impeaches, the radical Democrat Socialists will suffer a defeat at the polls in 2020 of Biblical proportions.
If she doesn't impeach, the radical Democrat Socialists will have a civil war of Biblical proportions,
Southern Chicken
Verified User
I "make" that Mueller has be to called in to Congress to testify.
Southern Chicken
Verified User
Who told you that? You're emotional again! Can you get out of your feelings to discuss your point of view?
Based on what?
What is incorrect about their conclusions, and how do you explain McGahn tampering with Flynn when he left that long, rambling message about Flynn's cooperation with Mueller on his attorney's voicemail?
That's witness tampering and obstruction of justice, committed by the White House Counsel. How do you explain that, now that there's recorded audio?
See, the minute we start diving into the details of what's in Mueller's report is the moment your defense becomes broadly conceptual thanks to your lack of reading the actual report yourself. Instead, you lie about reading it to prop up these vague, ambiguous gaslight attempts of the report.
Not once have you actually spoken to anything in the report; you're stalling.
Why was Manafort sharing GOP polling data with Russian spies throughout the campaign?
Why did the White House Counsel call Michael Flynn's attorney and leave that long, rambling message about cooperating with the Special Counsel?
Why did Trump tell Lester Holt he fired Comey "because of the Russia stuff"?
Why did Trump order McGahn to deny that Trump ordered to have him fired?
These are the questions y'all are going to have to answer for.
Better get your lifeboat prepped now, and start thinking of new ID's.
Trump is a miserable president. However, he's a miserable president who inherited an economy that was not only growing, but which had been set up for a prolonged period of strengthening growth, by a prior period of massive deleveraging and fiscal improvement. Obama left a country where the deficit had fallen by half compared to what he inherited, and maybe more importantly, a country in which private individuals had spent years reducing debt as a share of GDP. Household debt had been 98.5% of GDP at the end of the Bush Catastrophe, but by the end of 2016, it was down to 80.1%, which was the lowest it had ever been since the Federal Reserve started tracking that statistic. That took average debt service payments down from nearly 13% of disposable income to around 10% -- which was somewhere we hadn't been since before the orgy of private borrowing in the mid-80s. We were not only growing, but situated such that consumers and businesses could borrow (and borrow cheaply, thanks to low interest rates) to keep that growth going. Put on top of that a violently sudden increase in federal budget deficits (which just set an all-time quarterly high), and you've got a whole lot of stimulus to create short-term prosperity. That has really helped immunize Trump, despite how miserable a president he's been.
Trump has made a long series of very serious foreign policy mistakes, resulting in an absolute collapse of America's approval ratings around the world -- especially among the other leading nations whose cooperation we need to address global problems like terrorism, financial crises, climate change, etc. However, as you say, he hasn't yet gotten us into any major war (though the US has been committing various acts of war all around the world, in the small-scale). That lack of what I'd call a "charismatic" foreign policy mistake has, indeed, made it harder to go after him. It's not like people have been watching a steady stream of bodies coming home from some unforced-error like Iraq.
I doubt that plays much on her mind. Throughout this process, the more we've learned, the worse Trump looks. And, at this point, he looks dirty as hell. There's every reason to expect that will continue to be the case -- that he'll look worse and worse. And if he's put under oath and asked questions, it's virtually guaranteed he'll perjure himself. Rather, I think what Pelosi realizes is that it won't matter what comes out. The trial could result in a giant pile of smoking guns, and the Republicans will all vote to acquit. That's just in their nature. And the Fox News crowd will be painstakingly sheltered from relevations of Trump's wrongdoing, while fed a steady diet of out-of-context factoid and soundbites to convince them that the trial cleared Trump's name... the same way those walking afterbirths came away from the Mueller Report convinced it cleared Trump. So, what would the point be? Trump won't be removed from office, the informed people are already going to vote against Trump in the next election, the imbeciles are going to vote for him regardless, and the sideline sitters might just be annoyed enough by having impeachment coverage interrupting their boob tube swill that they break Trump's way, too. There's little upside and significant risk of down-side, from a pure partisan politics perspective.
The AG's dog and pony investigation is a joke. There's no sign of any wrongdoing to investigate, but he figures the dummies need to be told that it's actually the investigators who were in the wrong, so he figures if he blows enough smoke they'll assume there must have been a fire.
Darth Omar
Russian asset
You’ve been had on the ‘1,000 prosecutors’ bit lol.
It’s a facile bit of deception too. ‘Obtaining an indictment’ is easy. Theoretically, a person can be ‘indicted’ for anything a prosecutor dreams up.
Getting a *conviction* from said indictment is a whole ‘nother matter. The biggest strike against an obstruction charge against Trump would be that there was no ‘crime’ to obstruct an investigation of: Trump wasn’t guilty of collusion and he knew it. Even if he did impede the investigation his intent wasn’t criminal with respect to hiding a specific crime.
It’s technically possible to be indicted for obstruction with no underlying crime—but good luck convincing a jury to convict—because you’re going to need it. To borrow Comey’s phrase “no reasonable prosecutor would bring the indictment”. Largely, because there’s a greater chance they’d lose in front of a jury than win.
In terms of impeachment the ‘jury’ is going to be voters. When it becomes apparent that Democrats are trying to remove Trump because he allegedly obstructed a crimeless investigation—they are going to call bullshit on it.
Recall that Trump sent out about 10,000 Tweets calling the Mullet investigation a Witch Hunt. It’s very much going to resemble one to lots and lots of voters.
You're the ones who shoot up public places because of "economic anxiety".
This is going to be your mantra, even long after Trump is gone, and long after he left you holding all his baggage.
You haven't read Mueller's report, so you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Darth Omar
Russian asset
Neither of us have read it lol.
I read it.
That's why I am asking about specific things in it, like:
Why did Manafort share polling data with Russian spies for months during the election?
Why did the White House Counsel leave a long, rambling message with Flynn's attorney about his cooperation with Mueller?
Why did Trump order Sessions and McGahn to fire Mueller?
Eagle_Eye
Well-known member
I'm not so sure you're correct. The Patriot Act gave the president broad powers to fight terrorism. As far as I can find the SCOTUS has not ruled Bush's surveillance illegal or unconstitutional.