NATO encroachent in Russian Black Sea waters is a war waiting to happen

[Dutch Uncle]

true on getting nukes. we saw what happened when Qaddafi gave up his -they killed him
My question was Iran explicitly though - a Shi'a theocracy that embraced the hidden Iman
so Im not 100% sure they wouldnt use it. viva Armageddon

That was the concern in Pakistan if the radical Jihadists captured some or all of their nuclear arsenal.

It wouldn't be Armageddon, but setting off a dozen nukes would most certainly leave a mark.

IMO, the two most likely spots in the world for a nuke to be used in anger are the ME and the Paki-India region.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Crimea was Russian then - correct?

Like the Mexican-American War where Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California was American? LOL

 

[cancel2 2022]

Crimea was Russian then - correct?

Yes, the UK, France, the Ottoman Empire and Sardinia, I shit you not. Never was the saying about war making strange bedfellows truer.

 

[dukkha]

Like the Mexican-American War where Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California was American? LOL

pointless comparison. both Mexico and the US were new nations glomming up land

 

[dukkha]

That was the concern in Pakistan if the radical Jihadists captured some or all of their nuclear arsenal.

It wouldn't be Armageddon, but setting off a dozen nukes would most certainly leave a mark.

IMO, the two most likely spots in the world for a nuke to be used in anger are the ME and the Paki-India region.

BILL always says "Waziristan" is the most dangerous place on earth" so yes to what you wrote

 

[Dutch Uncle]

pointless comparison. both Mexico and the US were new nations glomming up land

Disagreed, but then you aren't much of a factual historian when it comes to Mother Russia.

 

[dukkha]

Disagreed, but then you aren't much of a factual historian when it comes to Mother Russia.

Im OK.. I dont study it that much. I'm much more interested in today's geopolitiks

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Im OK.. I dont study it that much. I'm much more interested in today's geopolitiks

Agreed on the relative importance of today's politics since today's politics affect us whereas history only affects us indirectly.

 

[Cypress]

completely different scenario. Putin is not looking to expand Russian borders.
More then anything he wants a better economy - which is why i always say we could deal with him to remove some sanctions in return for him not arming the separatists (etc)

For whatever its flaws were, we established a new world order after WW2 which was based on respect for international law and norms of conduct, and non-aggression except in self defence. Those principles were not always upheld, but the aspirational goals were exactly what we should aim for.

Natural law, natural rights, human rights, national sovereignty are all embedded in the UN charter, the International Declaration of Human Rights, and the canon of international law laid dowm subsequent to 1945.

Realpolitik undermines all of that hard won effort.

Realpolitik makes the world more dangerous, not less.

Vladimir Putin's invasion of Crimea, and the precedent it sets, in no way, shape, or makes the world a safer or more stable place.

Trying to place the blame on a British destroyer is a complete diversion

 

[dukkha]

For whatever its flaws were, we established a new world order after WW2 which was based on respect for international law and norms of conduct, and non-aggression except in self defence. Those principles were not always upheld, but the aspirational goals were exactly what we should aim for.

Natural law, natural rights, human rights, national sovereignty are all embedded in the UN charter, the International Declaration of Human Rights, and the canon of international law laid dowm subsequent to 1945.

Realpolitik undermines all of that hard won effort.

Realpolitik makes the world more dangerous, not less.

Vladimir Putin's invasion of Crimea, and the precedent it sets, in no way, shape, or makes the world a safer or more stable place.

Trying to place the blame on a British destroyer is a complete diversion

realpolitik (instead of the zero sum mindset where everything is either a win or a loss for either country) allows US Russian relations to be more then a zero sum game.
Transactional relations that better both parties are a force for peace -overcoming sanctions for example leads to cooperation even in a limited sense

You are way off here

 

[moon]

Scum of the Revolution

STFU you shill bigot POS

Your grammar isn't improving, Scum.


Haw, haw................................haw.

 

[Tranquillus in Exile]

i dont think NATO is particularly looking for a war, but wars happen by accidental incidents all the time

Putin thrives on this sort of thing. It "proves" to his people - who are propagandized up to the eyeballs - that Russia is threatened by the big bad outside world. Just as it always was.

It doesn't show that the Putin regime is strong, however. Quite the opposite.

Now what if British or American agents went about murdering western defectors who had fled to Russia? That in itself would be an act of war, and the Kremlin has done it twice in Britain.

 

[moon]

Putin thrives on this sort of thing. It "proves" to his people - who are propagandized up to the eyeballs - that Russia is threatened by the big bad outside world. Just as it always was.

It doesn't show that the Putin regime is strong, however. Quite the opposite.

Now what if British or American agents went about murdering western defectors who had fled to Russia? That in itself would be an act of war, and the Kremlin has done it twice in Britain.

Izrael has murdered dozens of opposition figures in foreign countries- and the ' west ' doesn't give a toss.

 

[dukkha]

Putin thrives on this sort of thing. It "proves" to his people - who are propagandized up to the eyeballs - that Russia is threatened by the big bad outside world. Just as it always was.

It doesn't show that the Putin regime is strong, however. Quite the opposite.

Now what if British or American agents went about murdering western defectors who had fled to Russia? That in itself would be an act of war, and the Kremlin has done it twice in Britain.

poisoning spies is not an act of war.. the UK accused Russia of murder -nothing else..stop the Russiaphobic drama

The poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal was the poisoning of Sergei Skripal, a former Russian military officer and double agent for the British intelligence agencies, and his daughter, Yulia Skripal, on 4 March 2018 in the city of Salisbury, England.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal

Russian people are n0t stupid, and they've seen NATO expansion and now the Ukraine in line -
right on Russia's border, with Donbass being a Russian speaking and oriented area.

so this "paranoia" isnt without foundation.
How about we try to integrrate Russia more into the west , instead of treating them only like an existential threat?
*oh nos.. DA RUSSIANS!!*

 

[Tranquillus in Exile]

poisoning spies is not an act of war

Alexander Litvinenko was not a spy, but he was a prominent critic of Putin. He maintained that Putin's rise to power had been organized by a faction of the former KGB
(of which Litvinenko had been a member, like Putin). In 2000 he sought and was granted political asylum in the UK; in 2006 he became a naturalized British citizen.

In November 2006 Litvinenko fell ill after meeting with two Russians in central London. He died of radioactive poisoning three weeks later.

These events, if ordered by the Kremlin, could not be construed an act of war? If you say so ...

How about we try to integrrate Russia more into the west

Where have you been? That's exactly what western nations were trying to do around 2000, before the expansion of Nato. Then came PUTIN. Integration has to work both ways, and he wanted nothing to do with it.

Twenty years later, you want us to try for more integration?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Yet you thread ban me, because I am that much better than you.

I have your number you worthless CUNT.

Rough night cleaning tables or just out of meds?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Izrael has murdered dozens of opposition figures in foreign countries- and the ' west ' doesn't give a toss.

Stalin murdered or caused the deaths of millions of Soviets yet you don't give a shit, Brit.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Rough night cleaning tables or just out of meds?

I am awesome.

The best of the best.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I think Putin is very wary of CHina but trade/money/power has a very strong allure..

If you see my signature the gif pretty much shows that exponential ccp growth, power & influence & Russia is already there..

There are certainly some bennies to be had by a better relationship w/ Russia, hopefully that can come about some day..

Better relations with all nations is a good thing but appeasement is for suckers. North Korea suckered the United States for cash for decades. The good news is that the US has more cash than anyone else...or is. The EU tried to compete and is falling apart. The Soviets were a complete cluster fuck and the Russians still are. The good news for them is they are sitting on a fantastic amount of resources. Global Warming will be good to Mother Russia. LOL

China is finding it's feet as a culture. They'll hit a wall between one-state rule vs. freedom and capitalism. Should be interesting.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I am awesome.

The best of the best.

Good to see the meds arrived.