Opposing Putin Is Like Pleading For Poison

[Cypress]

After Russian doctors waited long enough for the traces of poisoning proof to leave his system, the victim was allowed to be transported out of Russia for better care.

Putin is a corrupt oligarch, and the people and oligarchs around him are undoutedly capable of crime, repression, intimidation.

But I personally do not believe everything in the American press. We have a 70 history of assuming the worst, mischaracterizing, an exaggerating when it comes to all things Russia.

My favorite metaphor: Hollywood cult classic "Red Dawn" - Russian paratroopers land on the property of a rural Colorado high school and proceed to gun down the teachers and kids.


I have no doubt Putin's allies and criminals benefiting from the Putin regime will seek to intimidate and silence opposition politicians.

But I am always a little dubious when parts of the story start to sound a little like something out of a James Bond movie

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Putin is a corrupt oligarch, and the people and oligarchs around him are undoutedly capable of crime, repression, intimidation.

But I personally do not believe everything in the American press. We have a 70 history of assuming the worst, mischaracterizing, an exaggerating when it comes to all things Russia.

My favorite metaphor: Hollywood cult classic "Red Dawn" - Russian paratroopers land on the property of a rural Colorado high school and proceed to gun down the teachers and kids.


I have no doubt Putin's allies and criminals benefiting from the Putin regime will seek to intimidate and silence opposition politicians.

But I am always a little dubious when parts of the story start to sound a little like something out of a James Bond movie

Just like they did in Afghanistan.


Are you doubting Putin has had opponents murdered through poison?

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Cypress,

Putin is a corrupt oligarch, and the people and oligarchs around him are undoutedly capable of crime, repression, intimidation.

But I personally do not believe everything in the American press. We have a 70 history of assuming the worst, mischaracterizing, an exaggerating when it comes to all things Russia.

My favorite metaphor: Hollywood cult classic "Red Dawn" - Russian paratroopers land on the property of a rural Colorado high school and proceed to gun down the teachers and kids.


I have no doubt Putin's allies and criminals benefiting from the Putin regime will seek to intimidate and silence opposition politicians.

But I am always a little dubious when parts of the story start to sound a little like something out of a James Bond movie

Navalny has been poisoned in the past. He is very brave to oppose Putin.

 

[Cypress]

Just like they did in Afghanistan.


Are you doubting Putin has had opponents murdered through poison?

I do not believe any Russian, American, British, or French soldiers of the modern area have been knowingly authorized by commanding officers to attack a high school and gun down the teachers and children.

War crimes do happen at the behest of political leaders, or in the heat of battle, or by rogue soldiers. Napalm in Vietnam and Soviet Mi-24 gunships in Afghanistan undoubtedly kill many civilians. I hope and believe that the rules of engagement by the U.S. Army to minimize collateral damage is held to high standards, in principle.

I seriously doubt Putin ever directly ordered a hit on any opposition leader. He is too smart for that. He has surrogates and associates who get their hands dirty for him

Russia is complicated, what is happening in Russia is difficult to unpack and interpret. Russia is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, wrapped inside an enigma- Churchill.

There are many factions in Russia with a vested interest in suppressing opposition voices and dissidents. The Russian criminal underworld probably benefits from the current power structure, aka Putin's regime. Criminal oligarchs and unsavory associates of the Kremlin have an interest in maintaining the current system.

My point is, there are a lot of criminal elements in Russia capable of carrying out attacks on Russian opposition parties, journalists, activists.

Putin's main sin is providing the environment for corruption and criminality to take root and have cover

 

[Earl]

Opposing Putin Is Like Pleading For Poison


Obama told him he would be more flexible!

Indeed he did...”after I am re-elected.”

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Cypress,

Navalny has been poisoned in the past. He is very brave to oppose Putin.

True. Too bad Russia doesn't have more brave citizens. Maybe one day a Russia patriot will do to Putin what he's done to so many Russians and liberate their nation.

https://apnews.com/cfbe9fb70d4943e1881be5157b221cca
Dozens of Russian journalists have been killed or brutally beaten in recent years, in clear retribution for their work. In most cases, their attackers walked free.

Here’s a look at some of the high-profile cases:

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I do not believe any Russian, American, British, or French soldiers of the modern area have been knowingly authorized by commanding officers to attack a high school and gun down the teachers and children.

War crimes do happen at the behest of political leaders, or in the heat of battle, or by rogue soldiers. Napalm in Vietnam and Soviet Mi-24 gunships in Afghanistan undoubtedly kill many civilians. I hope and believe that the rules of engagement by the U.S. Army to minimize collateral damage is held to high standards, in principle.

I seriously doubt Putin ever directly ordered a hit on any opposition leader. He is too smart for that. He has surrogates and associates who get their hands dirty for him

Russia is complicated, what is happening in Russia is difficult to unpack and interpret. Russia is a riddle wrapped inside an enigma- Churchill.

There are many factions in Russia with a vested interest in suppressing opposition voices and dissidents. The Russian criminal underworld probably benefits from the current power structure, aka Putin's regime. Criminal oligarchs and unsavory associates of the Kremlin have an interest in maintaining the current system.

My point is, there are a lot of criminal elements in Russia capable of carrying out attacks on Russian opposition parties, journalists, activists.

Putin's main sin is providing the environment for corruption and criminality to take root and have cover

Dude, this thread is about a murderous dictator. Is there any doubt he's ordered the deaths of thousands, if not tens of thousands, by invading former satellite nations along with supporting murderous dictators like Assad. If Russian citizens didn't approve, why do they keep electing Putin to lead their nation?

 

[Darth Omar]

Being a democratic activist in Vladimir Putin's Russia takes balls of steel. One risks hard prison time, oppression, possible assassination.

It is not like carrying your bang bang and Confederate flag around Michigan Governor Whitmer's manor. Opposing Putin takes actual courage.

My sense is that Russian peoples are in it for the long haul. It took a couple centuries for the East Slavs to expel the Mongol Golden Horde, and it took them decades to dismantle totalitarian communism.

But when it happens, it will probably happen fast and unexpectedly - because most in the West will not recognize the tipping points being reached. I have been told by Russian citizens that the Russia is always balanced precariously on the edge of civil war....

And that may be a reason why, at one time, they needed a strong, authoritarian chief executive like Putin. Putin might have saved Russia from utter collapse 20 years ago. But now he has gone too far, and gamed the system to establish himself as the head of a criminal oligarchy.

Pretty much.

What’s Putin’s next move? Tanks into Poland?

 

[Cypress]

Dude, this thread is about a murderous dictator. Is there any doubt he's ordered the deaths of thousands, if not tens of thousands, by invading former satellite nations along with supporting murderous dictators like Assad. If Russian citizens didn't approve, why do they keep electing Putin to lead their nation?

Your question, as I interpreted it, was whether Putin orders anyone to be poisoned.

I do not think he orders it. Not directly.

Suppression of political opposition is probably being carried out by a range of factions in Russia....Russian domestic security services, the criminal underworld, corrupt oligarchs associated with Putin and the Kremlin. They all benefit from Putin's regime.

It is occurring with a nod and wink from Putin. That is my two cents.

 

[Cypress]

Pretty much.

What’s Putin’s next move? Tanks into Poland?

Putin is the head of a criminal oligarchy, and should be realistically dealt with as such. Donald Trump's abject subservience to Putin is not going to be regarded well by history

 

[volsrock]

Indeed he did...”after I am re-elected.”

Obama is a pussy he was scared he would be poisoned by big bad Putin

 

[volsrock]

Putin is the head of a criminal oligarchy, and should be realistically dealt with as such. Donald Trump's abject subservience to Putin is not going to be regarded well by history

Obama had 8 years to realistically deal with Putin

Instead he told Putin he would be more flexible, and told Mitt and the America people this

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Your question, as I interpreted it, was whether Putin orders anyone to be poisoned.

I do not think he orders it. Not directly.

Suppression of political opposition is probably being carried out by a range of factions in Russia....Russian domestic security services, the criminal underworld, corrupt oligarchs associated with Putin and the Kremlin. They all benefit from Putin's regime.

It is occurring with a nod and wink from Putin. That is my two cents.

Dude, do you think that if Putin wanted these murders of opponents to stop, they'd be stopped?

I agree that Putin doesn't dirty his hands himself. Leaders rarely do.

 

[Cypress]

Obama had 8 years to realistically deal with Putin

Instead he told Putin he would be more flexible, and told Mitt and the America people this

Why is it that the Kremlin has been so very keen to help Donald Trumpf get elected over Democratic candidates?

 

[Cypress]

Dude, do you think that if Putin wanted these murders of opponents to stop, they'd be stopped?

The suppression of activists and opposition parties suits him fine.

I did not think that was your question.


As to the other tangent, Russia does not have free and fair elections. We purportedly do. Unfortunately, our moral standing to criticize Russian foreign policy is questionable because we invaded Iraq, and have a long history of invading or meddling with countries in our sphere of influence, aka Latin America.

I personally would like to be able to criticize Kremlin foreign policy from a position of absolute and unassailable moral authority.

 

[volsrock]

Why is it that the Kremlin has been so very keen to help Donald Trumpf get elected over Democratic candidates?

Search Results
Web results

Why Putin Wants Obama to Win - The Moscow Timeswww.themoscowtimes.com › 2012/09/26 › why-putin-wa...
Sep 26, 2012 - Opinion | The change in Russia's perception can be explained by the sobering effects of the global recession and the "reset" in relations.

Russians back a second term for Obama | The World from PRXwww.pri.org › stories › russians-back-second-term-oba...
Oct 11, 2012 - MOSCOW, Russia — Experts say the Kremlin would like to see ... “Russia really wants Obama to win


Putin Weighs In On 'Genuine' Obama, 'Mistaken' Romney - WSJwww.wsj.com › articles
Sep 6, 2012 - Obama, Mr. Putin called his U.S. counterpart "a genuine person" who "really wants to change much for the better." Speaking to Russia's state-run ...





You need more?

 

[anatta]

The suppression of activists and opposition parties suits him fine.

I did not think that was your question.


As to the other tangent, Russia does not have free and fair elections. We purportedly do. Unfortunately, our moral standing to criticize Russian foreign policy is questionable because we invaded Iraq, and have a long history of invading or meddling with countries in our sphere of influence, aka Latin America.

I personally would like to be able to criticize Kremlin foreign policy from a position of absolute and unassailable moral authority.

you can criticize Russian policy like supporting the Uk. separatist, or claiming vasts swatches of the Arctic
from a non-moral base.
Moral criticisms are judging values - criticizing events policies come from extant observations
which is more likely to be accurate?

 

[anatta]

Your question, as I interpreted it, was whether Putin orders anyone to be poisoned.

I do not think he orders it. Not directly.

Suppression of political opposition is probably being carried out by a range of factions in Russia....Russian domestic security services, the criminal underworld, corrupt oligarchs associated with Putin and the Kremlin. They all benefit from Putin's regime.

It is occurring with a nod and wink from Putin. That is my two cents.

hard to say, but the Russian intelligence ops probly work like Russia ' Wagner Group'-
autonomous but carrying out Putin's wishes -yes

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The suppression of activists and opposition parties suits him fine.

I did not think that was your question.


As to the other tangent, Russia does not have free and fair elections. We purportedly do. Unfortunately, our moral standing to criticize Russian foreign policy is questionable because we invaded Iraq, and have a long history of invading or meddling with countries in our sphere of influence, aka Latin America.

I personally would like to be able to criticize Kremlin foreign policy from a position of absolute and unassailable moral authority.

Iraq was wrong, most Americans realize that fact. Most Americans also realize the righteousness of the "Pottery Barn Rule". Russia never did shit for the countries they destroyed.

Do you understand that there is a clear line between what nations were doing during the Cold War and what they did after? Do you think actions during the Cold War could be more easily defended than those same actions after the Cold War ended?

Yes, it'd be great to judge from a position of absolute and unassailable moral authority, but that's a fantasy. Human beings are flawed and always will be. The best we can hope for is to reach for good moral authority even if we can't always attain it.

 

[anatta]

Iraq was wrong, most Americans realize that fact. Most Americans also realize the righteousness of the "Pottery Barn Rule". Russia never did shit for the countries they destroyed.

Do you understand that there is a clear line between what nations were doing during the Cold War and what they did after? Do you think actions during the Cold War could be more easily defended than those same actions after the Cold War ended?

Yes, it'd be great to judge from a position of absolute and unassailable moral authority, but that's a fantasy. Human beings are flawed and always will be. The best we can hope for is to reach for good moral authority even if we can't always attain it.

NATO expansion were the root of all post Cold War problems.
We promised not to expand past Germany -and wound up encircling Russia then complain when they push back