So, You Want $15 An Hour?

[Into the Night]

Doesn't help in the short-term at all. For example, if the minimum goes up to $15 per hour employer contributions to all sorts of non-taxable things the government forces payment into--like social security, unemployment insurance, and the like--will go up with the wage. On average, right now, employers are paying

https://www.nam.org/the-cost-of-fed...latory costs of $34,671 per employee per year.

exceeds $10,000 per year (shown is for manufacturing) on its own. This will increase as wages increase because many of those costs are associated with the wage paid. For employers currently paying as little as two-thirds of that wage, possibly less, this is a huge hit that a tax break won't fix. Something has to change for them, and that will be a big increase in their prices most likely. Worse, this part of the problem favors the biggest employers the most. It hurts the small business employer the most.

...and these costs have only gone up as regulations and regulatory costs increase.

 

[Into the Night]

1. YOU insist upon treating your "hypotheticals" as a reasonably fact based declarations. As I've pointed out in our exchanges, that dog of yours won't fly. FYI, our legislators have the legal ability courtesy of the Constitution to change our national financial actions....they usually do this through the lobbying of various financial institutions or through the pressure/power of the people (i.e., the U.S. Labor Movement). And FYI, there is no "free market";

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/09/inequality-free-market-myth-billionaires

Nothing in the Constitution authorizes communism or fascism. The free market exists. You can't kill it. See your local drug dealer for details.

 

[Into the Night]

Once again, you ignore what you don't like in favor of supposition and conjecture. Sorry, but that dog of yours won't fly. Observe a synopsis that counters your narrative:

Price controls don't work. They always produce shortages. Minimum wage laws only mean more people are laid off.

 

[Into the Night]

Agreed, but it doesn't take a college degree to figure out that the adequacy of one's wagers is determined by the costs of the local economy. In short, in NY, $15 isn't enough and in most of Texas it's too much. IMO, it should be a state thing. The propensity for Democratic Party Federalism and their "One Size Fits All" legislation is wrong.

If they want to pass a universal minimum wage, they'd be smarter to index it to the local economy, not a flat fucking rate for everyone. They don't like a flat rate for taxes, but they do favor telling others how to spend their money.

An empty argument. Price controls of any kind do not work, either in NY or TX. It is fascism. It is a form of theft. They always cause shortages.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

An empty argument. Price controls of any kind do not work, either in NY or TX. It is fascism. It is a form of theft. They always cause shortages.

So what happened to you? Aneurysm? Early onset paranoid schizophrenia? You took a blow to the head?

 

[danielpalos]

Doesn't help in the short-term at all. For example, if the minimum goes up to $15 per hour employer contributions to all sorts of non-taxable things the government forces payment into--like social security, unemployment insurance, and the like--will go up with the wage. On average, right now, employers are paying

https://www.nam.org/the-cost-of-fed...latory costs of $34,671 per employee per year.

exceeds $10,000 per year (shown is for manufacturing) on its own. This will increase as wages increase because many of those costs are associated with the wage paid. For employers currently paying as little as two-thirds of that wage, possibly less, this is a huge hit that a tax break won't fix. Something has to change for them, and that will be a big increase in their prices most likely. Worse, this part of the problem favors the biggest employers the most. It hurts the small business employer the most.

I am not really sure what the problem is when they have a profit motive? You make it seem like capitalists have no capital solutions to their capital problems.

 

[danielpalos]

1. YOU insist upon treating your "hypotheticals" as a reasonably fact based declarations. As I've pointed out in our exchanges, that dog of yours won't fly. FYI, our legislators have the legal ability courtesy of the Constitution to change our national financial actions....they usually do this through the lobbying of various financial institutions or through the pressure/power of the people (i.e., the U.S. Labor Movement). And FYI, there is no "free market";

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/09/inequality-free-market-myth-billionaires

You are missing the point of my (hypo)thesis. Anyone subject to US jurisdiction has recourse to the civil protections of our Constitutional law.

 

[danielpalos]

That is nothing but a logical fallacy, affirming the consequent. By that, it argues that state increases in minimum wage--BY STATE--will somehow have the exact same effect as a massive increase in minimum wage mandated by the federal government. To be a bit more specific, take Arizona my state. The minimum wage is indexed to inflation and the cost of living index. As these rise, the state minimum wage rises and it's now a bit over $12 an hour. Employers handle the incremental increase on a yearly basis.

But, a sudden nationwide increase in the manditory minimum to $15 an hour is different.

Yes, that is 2019 but it's just as relevant. Take a state like Kansas. To suddenly raise the minimum wage there by nearly $7 an hour, virtually doubling wages overnight, would be crippling. We have no data for what happens when something like that is done. Or, in Nevada where minimum wage is often coupled to service jobs that rely on heavy tipping and can often exceed $15 an hour when that's accounted for. Same thing. Double the wage and watch people become far more reluctant to provide a big tip. That upsets the current dynamic in a major way.

Not really sure it would be much of a problem when coupled with a tax break or subsidy to help make that transition happen.

 

[danielpalos]

Capitalism has no unemployment. Anyone can play that wants to.

Right-wingers are just plain lairs with no valid arguments.

 

[danielpalos]

No, that would be YOU.

Communism doesn't work. It is theft.

Capitalism has no unemployment. Anyone that wants to produce can do so. Anyone can play.

Random number.

Price controls are not free arbitration.

Our legislators are delegated the social power mentioned previously. There is no appeal to ignorance of the law. Simply admit you prefer Chaos over Order.

 

[danielpalos]

Communism doesn't work. It is theft.

It takes morals for communism to work. That is why we resort to Capitalism.

 

[Nomad]

And I don't think Jeff Bezos needs US$100 billion while fucking over his workers.

Neither do I, but what're you gonna do?

Make it illegal to be wealthy?

Raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour will only result in businesses raising their prices and passing the expense on to the rest of us.

Plus, it hurts small, local businesses who already operate on thin margins.

AFAIC, there should be an age cutoff. For the full minimum, there should be a minimum age requirement of 21. From 18 to 21 could be $10 an hour. Under 18 would stay where it is.

Better to just raise taxes on the super wealthy.

And when the working man does this, people call him "ungrateful," and "lazy," and "not wanting to work."

OK, fine.

Doesn't change reality.

If a corporation doesn't offer a prospective CEO candidate the level of compensation he wants, the company runs the risk of losing him to the competition. Here in 'Murica, there's nothing illegal about working wherever you want and getting the best deal possible.

And all that aside, as I pointed out before, most of these huge compensation packages are derived from stock ownership.

 

[danielpalos]

And I don't think Jeff Bezos needs US$100 billion while fucking over his workers.

And when the working man does this, people call him "ungrateful," and "lazy," and "not wanting to work."

That is why equal protection of the laws matters; The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States

Employment is at the will of either party not only the employer or the State as the Richest under our form of Capitalism.

It is why, Government is social-ism.

 

[American Man]

Neither do I, but what're you gonna do?

Make it illegal to be wealthy?

Raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour will only result in businesses raising their prices and passing the expense on to the rest of us.

Plus, it hurts small, local businesses who already operate on thin margins.

AFAIC, there should be an age cutoff. For the full minimum, there should be a minimum age requirement of 21. From 18 to 21 could be $10 an hour. Under 18 would stay where it is.

Better to just raise taxes on the super wealthy.



OK, fine.

Doesn't change reality.

If a corporation doesn't offer a prospective CEO candidate the level of compensation he wants, the company runs the risk of losing him to the competition. Here in 'Murica, there's nothing illegal about working wherever you want and getting the best deal possible.

And all that aside, as I pointed out before, most of these huge compensation packages are derived from stock ownership.

1. Raising minimum wage will not raise prices across the board. This has been debunked by economists. You can find out why online. It's not my job to educate you on the basics.

2. If a business can't afford labor costs, then that business can't afford to exist. It's as simple as that. Why does the small business get all your pity but the worker gets none of it?

 

[Nordberg]

Neither do I, but what're you gonna do?

Make it illegal to be wealthy?

Raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour will only result in businesses raising their prices and passing the expense on to the rest of us.

Plus, it hurts small, local businesses who already operate on thin margins.

AFAIC, there should be an age cutoff. For the full minimum, there should be a minimum age requirement of 21. From 18 to 21 could be $10 an hour. Under 18 would stay where it is.

Better to just raise taxes on the super wealthy.



OK, fine.

Doesn't change reality.

If a corporation doesn't offer a prospective CEO candidate the level of compensation he wants, the company runs the risk of losing him to the competition. Here in 'Murica, there's nothing illegal about working wherever you want and getting the best deal possible.

And all that aside, as I pointed out before, most of these huge compensation packages are derived from stock ownership.

Make him and his businesses pay taxes.

 

[Into the Night]

I am not really sure what the problem is when they have a profit motive? You make it seem like capitalists have no capital solutions to their capital problems.

This isn't capitalism. It's fascism.

 

[Into the Night]

You are missing the point of my (hypo)thesis. Anyone subject to US jurisdiction has recourse to the civil protections of our Constitutional law.

Except that the United States no longer exists. The Constitution has been discarded by Democrats.

 

[Into the Night]

Not really sure it would be much of a problem when coupled with a tax break or subsidy to help make that transition happen.

Communism doesn't work. It's theft.

 

[Into the Night]

Right-wingers are just plain lairs with no valid arguments.

Argument of the Stone fallacy. Bigotry.

 

[Into the Night]

Our legislators are delegated the social power mentioned previously. There is no appeal to ignorance of the law. Simply admit you prefer Chaos over Order.

Buzzword fallacies. No argument presented.